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I have no side code projects to show you

codementor.io

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Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#81

Meh, I agree in general and believe in work/life balance but you don’t need a huge side project. Just take a few scripts written already, write a readme, and an hour a year per script tuning them up and adding tests. Maybe a code golf problem or two. In short, if you can’t find four hours a year to put into your career, maybe you just aren’t interested. I think of it as page two of my resume.

This has to be one of the best comments I've seen on this whole issue. Way too many devs seem to think it's a massive undertaking and they need a giant project. Hiring engineers don't even want to go through 100000 lines of code (they have lives as well!). Even starting by uploading your dot files is something and takes all of 10 minutes (with the added bonus of having them available if you need to switch machines).

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#82

It's funny that the tech industry is so insistent on side projects. I mean - would you hire a marketing person based on their 'side projects' or a corporate lawyer purely based on their pro-bono work? Likewise, who on earth asks a building contractor if they have any side projects? You would ask for references or find a contractor via someone you know. What about recruiters themselves? How does one judge if a person…

You know what's universally hard? Finding people who are good at their jobs. References don't matter, experience doesn't matter, education doesn't matter. Why not? Because it doesn't say anything about actual skill. What does? Side projects, where you can actually see if a person has skills.

> a corporate lawyer purely based on their pro-bono work?

You hire a corporate lawyer based on their public reputation. For a programmer, that's their github portfolio.

Business are in a unique position to actually judge programmers by their merit, not just hearsay or bullshit references or lies on a resume. Of course companies are going to factor that into their decision!

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#83
post #48

What strikes me as weird about this is the assumption that it's an either/or proposition. I am passionate about playing traditional dance music. And I have supported this by writing a program to generate high quality sheet music from ABC scores; scripts to download collections of scores or MP3s off the web; scripts to handle tagging/naming my MP3 files; etc. I am passionate about RPGs. Back in the day I supported thi…

Having a second business is normally not allowed without permission. If its not related most employers might be ok.

Like a PM I knew at BT who had a side gig as a violinist - one year his band had a residency during the Edinburgh festival (at the balmoral no less ) - if it had been a job related to huis day job no way would have he been allowed

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#84
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Side projects are for software what a portfolio is for other creative industries. You don't hire a designer sight unseen -- usually you ask for a sample. It makes perfect sense to expect the same of technology.

What if we consider software candidates like tradespeople? How do electricians and welders demonstrate their ability in an interview?

Work history, references, general questions and maybe some whiteboarding. Honestly just a regular interview.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#85
I've found that the companies that insist on a thriving github portfolio are also the companies that expect you to work 16 hours a day on their code.

Normal places with normal expectations on work/life balance don't expect you to be pumping out code every second of the day.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#86
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By quitting. 16 hours? What the fuck.

Most sane folks would like to find another job to quit into rather than just leave their job, but if you have a great financial cushion to rest on, sure, go ahead. Having been poor most of my life and worked full-time since I was 15 years old (with an odd break or two), I can tell you that that is a luxury most people do not have.

Don't quit a job until you have another -- and actually being currently employed is like free bonus points when interviewing.

Have you heard the expression work smarter not harder? You're working 16 hour days likely for the income of a regular 8 hour day -- so you're literally making half the salary you think you are. That's not smart.

Some crunch time is normal and if you're lucky, compensated for. If I'm working all out weekends to finish a project (might happen this month for me) then damn straight I'm taking some days off in lieu for that when things calm down. If it never ends, that's not crunch time.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#87
post #42
post #31

I’m not mad at you, but as the dude on the other side of the desk, I have to decide whether you can cut it and I’m fine saying no. I could make you do some whiteboard problems, but I think whiteboard problems are pretty far removed from your day to day development and I am uncomfortable relying on them as a proxy for your ability to ship code. I don’t really disagree with your philosophy of working while you’re worki…

On the flip side? As somebody who has plenty of open source projects--the set of employers who actually looks at them is within epsilon of zero. I have not once, not once gotten a meaningful question from anything I have posted on Github in any interview or client meeting even after suggesting up-front that it's worth taking a look. And I used to interview on a monthly basis just to keep in practice! No--instead you…

I don't share your experience and my guess is that you're not advertising your projects enough.

If you have projects that you're proud of — mention them on your website, on your Twitter's bio, on your LinkedIn profile, mention them everywhere. Even better, once per year go to a conference and talk about those projects in front of an audience, such that you can then have videos on YouTube too.

We like building things and there's absolutely no shame in marketing ourselves or in talking about the things we've built.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#88

It's funny that the tech industry is so insistent on side projects. I mean - would you hire a marketing person based on their 'side projects' or a corporate lawyer purely based on their pro-bono work? Likewise, who on earth asks a building contractor if they have any side projects? You would ask for references or find a contractor via someone you know. What about recruiters themselves? How does one judge if a person…

I think it's fair to consider how passionate a person is about improving their career skills. For programmers, that often consists of side projects. For other professions, it could include going to conferences, taking classes, reading trade publications, etc., all of which would be worth mentioning in an interview.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#89
post #48

What strikes me as weird about this is the assumption that it's an either/or proposition. I am passionate about playing traditional dance music. And I have supported this by writing a program to generate high quality sheet music from ABC scores; scripts to download collections of scores or MP3s off the web; scripts to handle tagging/naming my MP3 files; etc. I am passionate about RPGs. Back in the day I supported thi…

> The idea that a programmer could have an entire second business and not write any interesting code in the process strikes me as really odd. There are NO tasks for the company that could be usefully automated?

He runs a dog business. Probably best using pen and paper... or microsoft office... definitely not custom code.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#90
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Side projects are for software what a portfolio is for other creative industries. You don't hire a designer sight unseen -- usually you ask for a sample. It makes perfect sense to expect the same of technology.

I can take a 10 minute look at a designer's portfolio and get reasonably accurate insight into their style and abilities. Do you think a 10 minute scan of an arbitrary GitHub account is the same? I say decidedly not.

Why not? Can you elaborate? Because 10 minutes with a Github account is enough for me to decide whether I'd hire someone or not.
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