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I have no side code projects to show you

codementor.io

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Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#31

Post by warcher »

I’m not mad at you, but as the dude on the other side of the desk, I have to decide whether you can cut it and I’m fine saying no. I could make you do some whiteboard problems, but I think whiteboard problems are pretty far removed from your day to day development and I am uncomfortable relying on them as a proxy for your ability to ship code.

I don’t really disagree with your philosophy of working while you’re working and NOT working in your downtime. I think the same way.

But I have a whole pile of stuff I can show you that I’ve worked on. I don’t ask anybody to take my word for it. In computing, you just can’t. The signal to noise ratio is too bad, there are too many guys out there making unmaintainable junk, if they actually ship anything at all. There are shops out there that can afford to hire a bunch of maybes and just weed out the duds when they wash out, but I don’t have that luxury. Nor am I going to go on some weeks long hiring safari where I hire you for a week or two and see if you can cut it. No time man. Sorry, don’t have it. I’m going to give you the job or I’m not going to give you the job.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#32

Post by kelnos »

shortsightedsid wrote: post #25

It's funny that the tech industry is so insistent on side projects. I mean - would you hire a marketing person based on their 'side projects' or a corporate lawyer purely based on their pro-bono work? Likewise, who on earth asks a building contractor if they have any side projects? You would ask for references or find a contractor via someone you know. What about recruiters themselves? How does one judge if a person…

The next time I'm interviewing in front of a hiring manager who asks me about my side coding projects, I'm going to ask them about their side managing projects.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#33

Post by richardwhiuk »

busterarm wrote: post #26
rublev wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By quitting. 16 hours? What the fuck.

Most sane folks would like to find another job to quit into rather than just leave their job, but if you have a great financial cushion to rest on, sure, go ahead. Having been poor most of my life and worked full-time since I was 15 years old (with an odd break or two), I can tell you that that is a luxury most people do not have.

Work the hours in your contract. No more, no less. If you aren't being compensated, why work longer?

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#34

Post by ravenstine »

I agree that it shouldn't cost you being able to have a job that you like. That being said, I don't see why you shouldn't have a couple of side projects on Github or even a personal site. The side projects I've shown to employers were not gargantuan MVPs but simple applications that did one nifty thing well. It's fine if you don't want to do any of that; I personally would want to do things that give me an advantage with a company that values interest in coding and innovation.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#35

Post by jackschultz »

Why doesn't he mention what he thinks interviews should be about? Does he think that asking a bunch of dry-erase-board-questions about algorithms is better? What about just a company going with their gut?

It's tough to agree with a post that doesn't offer an alternative. All I get from this is that he wants to talk about how his life is more balanced and hobbies are better than ours, and that alone should be enough proof that he deserves every job he wants.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#36

Post by jorblumesea »

Am I the only one who likes side projects? I'm addicted to the idea of starting new projects in new languages. How many of them ever get completed or push into an environment is a different story... It's fresh, clean and filled with possibility. An existing code base is usually filled with hacks etc.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#37

Post by sidlls »

TAForObvReasons wrote: post #29
shortsightedsid wrote: post #25

It's funny that the tech industry is so insistent on side projects. I mean - would you hire a marketing person based on their 'side projects' or a corporate lawyer purely based on their pro-bono work? Likewise, who on earth asks a building contractor if they have any side projects? You would ask for references or find a contractor via someone you know. What about recruiters themselves? How does one judge if a person…

Side projects are for software what a portfolio is for other creative industries. You don't hire a designer sight unseen -- usually you ask for a sample. It makes perfect sense to expect the same of technology.

Only if you believe software development is neither engineering nor science, and is purely creative.

It isn't, though, and demanding a portfolio is almost as terrible a practice as Cracking the Coding Interview style interviews.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#38

Post by kelnos »

warcher wrote: post #31

I’m not mad at you, but as the dude on the other side of the desk, I have to decide whether you can cut it and I’m fine saying no. I could make you do some whiteboard problems, but I think whiteboard problems are pretty far removed from your day to day development and I am uncomfortable relying on them as a proxy for your ability to ship code. I don’t really disagree with your philosophy of working while you’re worki…

You're espousing a false dichotomy. The options in evaluating a candidate aren't merely "give them whiteboard coding problems" or "examine their side projects". Give them a take-home assignment. Give them an in-person assignment where they have several hours to complete a smallish design-and-build task. There are a lot more options, and I'm getting tired of people claiming they don't know how to evaluate technical candidates when it seems like people are just saying "whiteboarding is a bad test" and throwing up their hands and giving up.

Sure, you can use side projects to complement other data, but if you're relying on it as the primary measure of a candidate's programming skill, you're doing it wrong.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#39

Post by apk-d »

derekp7 wrote: post #8

How would you go about putting a personal side project up on github if you are stuck with an employment contract that says your employer owns all your intellectual output, even that which you produce on your own time? Yes, I realize that stipulation is there for general protection of the employer and not typically intended to be used in a draconian way, however it still leaves the door open for you to get sued into o…

> your employer owns all your intellectual output, even that which you produce on your own time

Holy shit, I had no idea this was legal [furiously reviews contract]

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#40

Post by nathan_long »

Honest question: do you use open source at work? Do you contribute to open source while at work? If not, why not?

A couple days ago I spent several hours puzzling through how to use an open source library. When I figured it out, I made a PR for documentation. Our closed-source app will benefit from having its dependencies better documented.

I do very little coding outside of work anymore, but I still have public contributions to show.

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