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U.S. Consumer Bureau Loses Fight to Allow More Class-Action Suits

nytimes.com

201–210 of 249 posts

Re: U.S. Consumer Bureau Loses Fight to Allow More Class-Action Suits

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not very good: "the rule would harm our community banks and credit unions by opening the door to frivolous lawsuits by special interest trial lawyers." http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/10/25/559950275/...

Ah, yeah, the old Republican trick of creating rules that clearly benefit giant corporations and pass it on the basis that it'd hurt "small corporations." I'm sorry, but if your tiny community bank fucked up badly enough to be on the receiving end of a class-action, maybe they deserve to be affected. Same for bigger banks.

> creating rules that clearly benefit

I think you mean removing rules that clearly constrain?

Re: U.S. Consumer Bureau Loses Fight to Allow More Class-Action Suits

#202

Could as a consumer not add an arbitration clause to every contract you are handed with the same requirements except you get to pick the arbitrator? It seems strange to me that legally only one side of a contract gets to pick all the niceties. I suppose they would have you arrested for impersonating a lawyer to even ask for this.

How do you do that when it's the install EULA after you've already purchased the product?

How do you do that when the contracts are fundamentally entirely one sided (we can change it whenever we want).

Re: U.S. Consumer Bureau Loses Fight to Allow More Class-Action Suits

#203
post #4

Pure speculation ahead: Suppose for a moment that the Equifax hack was carried out by a nation-state (like, say, North Korea). This is not an issue of consumer trust and safety. It is an issue of national (US) security and safety. To give another analogy, imagine that in 1920, the Canadian military marched over the border and robbed some banks. Does it make sense for the patrons of that bank to be able to sue the ban…

> Does it make sense for the patrons of that bank to be able to sue the bank?

If they left the doors unlocked and didn't bother to hire security then sure.

Re: U.S. Consumer Bureau Loses Fight to Allow More Class-Action Suits

#204

It is entirely superficial to cast this fight as one between good and evil. As much as anything, it was about proper process. Legislative, executive, judicial - those are the three branches under the Constitution that are supposed to check and balance one another. The legislature passed the federal arbitration act almost 100 years ago. It was signed into law by the president. And it has been consistently upheld by th…

This is a pretty one sided account. The CFPB didn't spring into existence because some unelected bureaucrat decided it should exist. The structure that the DC Circuit Court of Appeals found unconstitutional likewise wasn't the design of some unelected bureaucrat.

The Federal Arbitration Act is not the only piece of duly enacted legislation in question here. Another peice of legislation -- one that was passed by both Houses of Congress and signed by the President of the United States -- was the Dodd–Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act.

A lot of bankers and their lawyers fought against Dodd-Frank tooth and nail. They were very happy with how things worked up until that point, thank you very much. Normally the American public doesn't have the attention span to thwart the bankers' lobbyists -- they are in there 24/7 lobbying for narrow concentrated interests and public interests on the other side are too diffuse and abstract to mount an effective defense. But in this case the stars aligned and legislation was passed. So the lobbyists moved on from stopping the bill from being passed to killing it afterwords in the regulatory process.

Where were the impassioned speeches about separation of powers and the will of Congress when bank lobbyists were busy eviscerating the skin-in-the-game rule?

Sure, Congress has every right to pass a law, which is what they did here, and override a prior law. But by the same token the Dodd-Frank Congress had every right to override the Federal Arbitration Act. This isn't a question of separation of powers, it's a question of public policy. Congress didn't stand up for Congressional prerogatives, they stood up for banks.

Re: U.S. Consumer Bureau Loses Fight to Allow More Class-Action Suits

#205
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the banks left all their customers money protected by a wind screen door that was accessible in the alley, I think suing could be justified.

Your example falls under the purview of negligence in tort law. Nevertheless an arbitration agreement may supersede a potential lawsuit. The widespread use of forced arbitration seems ripe for examination by the SCOTUS. I'm no lawyer, but it seems like a fairly blatant violation of the 7th amendment.

They have examined it and found it's fine.

Re: U.S. Consumer Bureau Loses Fight to Allow More Class-Action Suits

#206
post #114
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was offered over $1000 off to 'just sign the damned contract', but still ended up walking. I was fortunate to find a different dealer that didn't have an arbitration clause, though. I fear I wouldn't find that next time around, and was really hanging my hopes upon legislation like this.

I'm going to ask what might be a dumb question, because I don't know any better. But is there any statistical evidence that arbitration results in worse outcomes for the consumer, or is all the hate theoretical for now? People on HN and otherwise speak about arbitration like it's an auto-loss for the consumer, but it's not like our court systems are guaranteed to be much fairer. EDIT: It looks like the bottom of the…

Arbitration is also secret, so it's very difficult to gather data about its results.

Re: U.S. Consumer Bureau Loses Fight to Allow More Class-Action Suits

#208

This only highlights the moral emptiness and naked corruption of the modern GOP. Deregulation is fine if you strengthen the ability of citizens to obtain redress through the judicial system. If you weaken that ability, or it is weakened, you increase regulation. But they're both deregulating and restricting judicial redress, which only increases power of those who don't need it. Companies either are liable or not; th…

What's crazy is that since Reagan the GOP is also fine with increased gov spending, among a host of other increasingly authoritarian policies.* So no longer can they even claim to be anti government corruption & spending, and pro business & 'freedom.' They just appear to be 'anti people.' But please don't pretend the Dems are a whole lot better on most of these issues... I really hope our generation can work together…

> But please don't pretend the Dems are a whole lot better on most of these issues

They are, and people can demand they be better still.

Re: U.S. Consumer Bureau Loses Fight to Allow More Class-Action Suits

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While you're right, Dems recieve a lot of Wall Street cash and do their bidding often, here all D's voted against it.[0] Both are "corrupted" to use your words but I'd say one is "worse" at least on this one issue. [0] And yes, most did it for political reasons I imagine.

To expound on your [0], remember that Republicans voted on repealing Obamacare when they knew it was going to be vetoed, but once they were actually in control, suddenly they didn't have enough votes.

Except the democrats were the ones who put in these rules in the first place.

Re: U.S. Consumer Bureau Loses Fight to Allow More Class-Action Suits

#210

This only highlights the moral emptiness and naked corruption of the modern GOP. Deregulation is fine if you strengthen the ability of citizens to obtain redress through the judicial system. If you weaken that ability, or it is weakened, you increase regulation. But they're both deregulating and restricting judicial redress, which only increases power of those who don't need it. Companies either are liable or not; th…

Take a look at how many YC backed companies have arb clauses in consumer contracts. It's not just a GOP problem.

Even if you argue that both sides are bad, the GOP is still seems clearly worse given that the they are rolling back the (little) things the democrats did.
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