Most US jobs created since 2005 are not conventional full-time work • Hacker News Board

Re: Most US jobs created since 2005 are not conventional full-time work

#51

Post by ThomPete » Wed, Oct 25, 2017, 6:34 PM UTC

csours wrote: post #2

> “We find that 94% of net job growth in the past decade was in the alternative work category,” said Krueger. “And over 60% was due to the [the rise] of independent contractors, freelancers and contract company workers.” So, not exactly temp workers, but contract workers who require less overhead and are easy to fire.

Yup. I have been saying this for a couple of years now and which is why I am a firm believer that automation and digitalization are some of the biggest challenges for society although I am a proponent of both.

Re: Most US jobs created since 2005 are not conventional full-time work

#52

Post by ThomPete » Wed, Oct 25, 2017, 6:36 PM UTC

notsohugedeal22 wrote: post #13

csours wrote: post #2

> “We find that 94% of net job growth in the past decade was in the alternative work category,” said Krueger. “And over 60% was due to the [the rise] of independent contractors, freelancers and contract company workers.” So, not exactly temp workers, but contract workers who require less overhead and are easy to fire.

Exactly why we need universal healthcare in the US It’s something every worker should be fighting tooth and nail for It would go a long way to breaking up the neoliberal corporate hegemony Sadly, and regardless of education and political leanings, Americans seem in love with a fictional account of the countries history. That it was all great 50 yrs ago without universal healthcare (when they were kids and not really…

You need to define what you mean with universal and what you mean with healthcare. Does it mean ex that you can't have private insurance and private hospitals? What does it cover? Who does it cover (Tourists, illegal immigrants?) and what does it cover?

I have lived in both systems and have experienced pro and cons with both of theem.

Re: Most US jobs created since 2005 are not conventional full-time work

#53

Post by ThomPete » Wed, Oct 25, 2017, 6:37 PM UTC

bryan11 wrote: post #20

csours wrote: post #2

> “We find that 94% of net job growth in the past decade was in the alternative work category,” said Krueger. “And over 60% was due to the [the rise] of independent contractors, freelancers and contract company workers.” So, not exactly temp workers, but contract workers who require less overhead and are easy to fire.

Has the increasing cost of health insurance motivated employers to start using more contract workers?

It has allowed them to avoid paying for that part to make business models like Ubers, TaskRabbits etc work.

Re: Most US jobs created since 2005 are not conventional full-time work

#54

Post by dmix » Wed, Oct 25, 2017, 6:41 PM UTC

Mz wrote: post #46

I actually consider this to be good news overall. We do need to keep an eye on structuring things such that gig workers have the ability to grow real careers and have positive experiences (wrt adequate income and quality of life in terms of control over their time etc). We need to make sure these aren't structured in a fuck you way. But, I do gig work and it was a huge saving grace while extremely ill and homeless. I…

Except that the go-to solution to every industry problems has been (and continues to be) to regulate it centrally with some agency or shut it down when that doesn't make sense, which in reality only works for a big-company full time salary job oriented economy. Instead of strengthening property laws and other personal liability protections, aka the type of recourses available to contractors, and/or simply offering traditional services and protections to everyone, not just full-time employee or those who meet a byzantine list of special conditions.

Instead of trying to fix these out-of-date legacy systems, a legal and regulatory system designed for a previous generation, everyone seems to want to attack the 'gig economy' and Silicon Valley as some purposefully exploitative entity, as if this is why Uber came into existence. Rather than a natural evolution of the workplace in a high-tech economy.

My favourite are those pushing the idea that unions are the missing piece of the puzzle in 2017.

Re: Most US jobs created since 2005 are not conventional full-time work

#55

Post by tytytytytytytyt » Wed, Oct 25, 2017, 6:47 PM UTC

notsohugedeal22 wrote: post #13

csours wrote: post #2

> “We find that 94% of net job growth in the past decade was in the alternative work category,” said Krueger. “And over 60% was due to the [the rise] of independent contractors, freelancers and contract company workers.” So, not exactly temp workers, but contract workers who require less overhead and are easy to fire.

Exactly why we need universal healthcare in the US It’s something every worker should be fighting tooth and nail for It would go a long way to breaking up the neoliberal corporate hegemony Sadly, and regardless of education and political leanings, Americans seem in love with a fictional account of the countries history. That it was all great 50 yrs ago without universal healthcare (when they were kids and not really…

neoliberal corporate hegemony?

Re: Most US jobs created since 2005 are not conventional full-time work

#56

Post by alphonsegaston » Wed, Oct 25, 2017, 6:54 PM UTC

dmix wrote: post #54

Mz wrote: post #46

I actually consider this to be good news overall. We do need to keep an eye on structuring things such that gig workers have the ability to grow real careers and have positive experiences (wrt adequate income and quality of life in terms of control over their time etc). We need to make sure these aren't structured in a fuck you way. But, I do gig work and it was a huge saving grace while extremely ill and homeless. I…

Except that the go-to solution to every industry problems has been (and continues to be) to regulate it centrally with some agency or shut it down when that doesn't make sense, which in reality only works for a big-company full time salary job oriented economy. Instead of strengthening property laws and other personal liability protections, aka the type of recourses available to contractors, and/or simply offering tr…

Instead of understanding the history of labor force exploitation in the United States, everyone wants to pretend that a high-tech gloss over a return to Gilded Age-style Robber barons is a “natural evolution.” Tech workers survive in comfort within the last remaining vestiges of benefits that union members fought and died to obtain. The gig economy is just what they called “piecework” a century ago.

Re: Most US jobs created since 2005 are not conventional full-time work

#57

Post by walshemj » Wed, Oct 25, 2017, 6:56 PM UTC

armenarmen wrote: post #27

walshemj wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not well paid IT contractors its all the minimum wage disguised employment "gig" jobs that is where the growth is.

Yeah, and these gigs aren't the best thing around for sure. But I wonder where people would be without them, you know? Would it be huge unemployment? Or would conventional employees be the result?

well one Uber driver interviewed in the UK used to own his own private hire firm he's seen a huge drop

Re: Most US jobs created since 2005 are not conventional full-time work

#58

Post by scythe » Wed, Oct 25, 2017, 6:58 PM UTC

1_2__4 wrote: post #33

adventured wrote: post #8

In the time since the end of the article's data was sourced, until now, the U6 rate has fallen from 11% to 8.3% - which is back to where it was in the Summer of 1998. When it gets into the 7.x% levels, the employment market will be the second hottest in roughly 50 years next to the year 2000. The time frame sourced, includes an U6 rate that reached nearly 18% and a U3 rate that hit 10%. It's not surprising that conve…

If there is a labor shortage then why are the jobs being created of the kind that are less advantageous to workers? Isn’t the market supposed to “correct” in favor of labor in that scenario? Because it looks like the opposite has happened.

My understanding is that QE caused asset inflation which increased the price of land and therefore increased the price of housing. So wage gains have ended up in the hands of landlords.

Re: Most US jobs created since 2005 are not conventional full-time work

#59

Post by walshemj » Wed, Oct 25, 2017, 6:58 PM UTC

armenarmen wrote: post #27

walshemj wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not well paid IT contractors its all the minimum wage disguised employment "gig" jobs that is where the growth is.

Yeah, and these gigs aren't the best thing around for sure. But I wonder where people would be without them, you know? Would it be huge unemployment? Or would conventional employees be the result?

Yes and guess who subsides those peoples benefits - I don't mind subsidizing nurse or dr training but a taxi company no way

Re: Most US jobs created since 2005 are not conventional full-time work

#60

Post by dmix » Wed, Oct 25, 2017, 7:04 PM UTC

alphonsegaston wrote: post #56

dmix wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that the go-to solution to every industry problems has been (and continues to be) to regulate it centrally with some agency or shut it down when that doesn't make sense, which in reality only works for a big-company full time salary job oriented economy. Instead of strengthening property laws and other personal liability protections, aka the type of recourses available to contractors, and/or simply offering tr…

Instead of understanding the history of labor force exploitation in the United States, everyone wants to pretend that a high-tech gloss over a return to Gilded Age-style Robber barons is a “natural evolution.” Tech workers survive in comfort within the last remaining vestiges of benefits that union members fought and died to obtain. The gig economy is just what they called “piecework” a century ago.

You can make all of the correlations to historical trendlines you like but this is a new phenomenon with plenty of benefits to both the customer and workers compared to previous systems, which is why it exists, almost entirely as a result of technology. It's been disruptive and sudden largely due to a complete lack of innovation within existing systems, a possibly inherently feature of previous models. Not driven by some malicious intent of some nerds in California, as the common narratives like to push. That doesn't mean it's not flawed either, all new systems have growing pains.

But more importantly, ignoring how it fits into academic economic history, it's not going away any time soon and we're not going back to an economy where big companies + union model makes sense again merely because our legal/regulatory system was previously designed for that.

They say the political right is the one obsessed with pining for the old days in the US but I see it just as much nostalgia coming from the left. And it does little to help people solve the problems they have today and, likely more so, in the future.