U.S. Consumer Bureau Loses Fight to Allow More Class-Action Suits • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. Consumer Bureau Loses Fight to Allow More Class-Action Suits

#171

Post by AlexandrB » Wed, Oct 25, 2017, 5:19 PM UTC

comex wrote: post #41

chillydawg wrote: post #37

Is this an opportunity for a new type of law firm that opens up to deal with one type of complaint for one company and offers extremely low fees to file? The idea would be that the paperwork is all the same for the X thousand/million people suing INDIVIDUALLY such that economies of scale take over and the cost of actually filing and pushing the suit through becomes cheap enough for almost anyone. On the side of Giant…

With (most) arbitration clauses, you can't actually sue at all. You have to go through a private arbitration firm, which can set pretty much whatever rules they want - including things like basing rulings on religious law [1]. Compared to that, I'm pretty sure there'd be nothing illegal about rules to defeat the hypothetical law firm, like requiring complainants to show up in person. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2015/…

> [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/03/business/dealbook/in-reli...

This is literally the Christian version of "Sharia Law", which seems to be a boogeyman of the conservative right. Unbelievable.

Re: U.S. Consumer Bureau Loses Fight to Allow More Class-Action Suits

#172

Post by ksk » Wed, Oct 25, 2017, 5:24 PM UTC

orthecreedence wrote: post #150

tertius wrote: post #144

So I'm trying to figure out why this was even done. Here's the White House statement on it. From https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2017/10/24/state... > Statement Regarding Senate Passage of H.J. Res. 111 > President Donald J. Trump applauds the Congress for passing H.J. Res. 111, Disapproving of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau's (CFPB) Arbitration Agreements Rule. According to a recent report by t…

> Rather, under the rule, consumers would have fewer options for quickly and efficiently resolving financial disputes. This is actually retarded. How is arbitration OR trial less options than just arbitration? Last I checked, 2 > 1 but maybe I need to review my math skills. Just because a company can't force arbitration doesn't mean it isn't still an option. The Whitehouse is just flipping words around to make it see…

>Just because a company can't force arbitration doesn't mean it isn't still an option.

That is not what is claimed. The CPFB banned financial products and services from using arbitration over class action.

Re: U.S. Consumer Bureau Loses Fight to Allow More Class-Action Suits

#173

Post by ksk » Wed, Oct 25, 2017, 5:27 PM UTC

tertius wrote: post #153

orthecreedence wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Rather, under the rule, consumers would have fewer options for quickly and efficiently resolving financial disputes. This is actually retarded. How is arbitration OR trial less options than just arbitration? Last I checked, 2 > 1 but maybe I need to review my math skills. Just because a company can't force arbitration doesn't mean it isn't still an option. The Whitehouse is just flipping words around to make it see…

> but their reasoning is just a blatant lie. I would actually try to understand the reasoning from the DOT and then look at the rebuttal from the CFPB before I make statements like this. If it's as simple as you state, 1 options instead of 2, why hasn't anyone else picked up on this blatant lie?

I don't know why people are down voting you. Your questions are completely valid.

Re: U.S. Consumer Bureau Loses Fight to Allow More Class-Action Suits

#174

Post by rhizome » Wed, Oct 25, 2017, 5:33 PM UTC

Larrikin wrote: post #126

morley wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to ask what might be a dumb question, because I don't know any better. But is there any statistical evidence that arbitration results in worse outcomes for the consumer, or is all the hate theoretical for now? People on HN and otherwise speak about arbitration like it's an auto-loss for the consumer, but it's not like our court systems are guaranteed to be much fairer. EDIT: It looks like the bottom of the…

The normal system is that these civil disputes are done in a court of law. Justify the change.

The siren call of tort-reform by any other name...

Re: U.S. Consumer Bureau Loses Fight to Allow More Class-Action Suits

#175

Post by tehwebguy » Wed, Oct 25, 2017, 5:37 PM UTC

tertius wrote: post #153

orthecreedence wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Rather, under the rule, consumers would have fewer options for quickly and efficiently resolving financial disputes. This is actually retarded. How is arbitration OR trial less options than just arbitration? Last I checked, 2 > 1 but maybe I need to review my math skills. Just because a company can't force arbitration doesn't mean it isn't still an option. The Whitehouse is just flipping words around to make it see…

> but their reasoning is just a blatant lie. I would actually try to understand the reasoning from the DOT and then look at the rebuttal from the CFPB before I make statements like this. If it's as simple as you state, 1 options instead of 2, why hasn't anyone else picked up on this blatant lie?

Everyone did pick up on it. That’s what this entire thread is about. Catching a public servant in a lie doesn’t change anything unfortunately.

Re: U.S. Consumer Bureau Loses Fight to Allow More Class-Action Suits

#176

Post by tehwebguy » Wed, Oct 25, 2017, 5:41 PM UTC

Skeletor wrote: post #116

fragsworth wrote: post #107

I'm losing faith in our system of government. Citibank did this to me on a credit card I had with them: 1. I stopped using the card for several months. 2. I then used it once on a small purchase. 3. They stopped sending me an e-mail reminders for my bill. (An "error" in their system disabled e-mails for my account specifically) 4. I racked up about $100 in late fees and interest charges. 5. I called them up and they…

You should file a complaint with https://www.consumerfinance.gov/ (CFPB.) It will get Citibank's attention and you will get to their escalated support team which will hopefully get a better result. They will take a CFPB complaint very seriously and respond. There are existing regulatory systems in place to push back against the shady practices you mentioned.

Closing down the CFPB is on the administration’s short list, so hurry.

Re: U.S. Consumer Bureau Loses Fight to Allow More Class-Action Suits

#177

Post by tertius » Wed, Oct 25, 2017, 5:47 PM UTC

tehwebguy wrote: post #175

tertius wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but their reasoning is just a blatant lie. I would actually try to understand the reasoning from the DOT and then look at the rebuttal from the CFPB before I make statements like this. If it's as simple as you state, 1 options instead of 2, why hasn't anyone else picked up on this blatant lie?

Everyone did pick up on it. That’s what this entire thread is about. Catching a public servant in a lie doesn’t change anything unfortunately.

I haven't seen anyone in this thread talk about the DOT's report, i.e. what it seems the result of the vote is based on. Or even what the White House has said in statements regarding the reasoning to do it.

Neither have I seen where the simple statement "one option is less than two" is published by any media outlet.

Re: U.S. Consumer Bureau Loses Fight to Allow More Class-Action Suits

#178

Post by okreallywtf » Wed, Oct 25, 2017, 5:50 PM UTC

Frondo wrote: post #158

aaronbrethorst wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to echo this and also add that you should either have a ballot at home, or an opportunity to vote at a polling place coming up in a couple weeks. Vote. If you feel like your government doesn’t represent you, then start changing it.

More than that: make it your second job to persuade your friends and loved ones to pay attention to this stuff and vote, too. The whole "never discuss politics or religion" trope is one of the things that gets society in a place where a few people have a disproportionate voice in how the place is run.

I don't know why you got downvoted, you aren't saying that people have to be ideologues or be obnoxious.

Politics is how problems get solved because politics is how society communicates on issues, it may not be working right but thats what it is, it is our sole way of governing our society.

Hens, please stop electing foxes.

Re: U.S. Consumer Bureau Loses Fight to Allow More Class-Action Suits

#179

Post by DubiousPusher » Wed, Oct 25, 2017, 5:53 PM UTC

grellas wrote: post #170

It is entirely superficial to cast this fight as one between good and evil. As much as anything, it was about proper process. Legislative, executive, judicial - those are the three branches under the Constitution that are supposed to check and balance one another. The legislature passed the federal arbitration act almost 100 years ago. It was signed into law by the president. And it has been consistently upheld by th…

Agreed. Unfortunately we find ourselves in an era of legislative stagnation. Obscure and popular policy alike have been unable to move through the legislative process for almost seven years. Compounding the problem is the rapid pace of change we live with. The legislature, unable to resolve many of the issues of the 20th century is building a heap of 21st century ones. And the growth rate of that heap is increasing, accelerating its increase in mass.

If history is any indicator, in political systems this broken, other institutions collect power and either that power is sustained and relieves legal pressure or that power is revoked and the pressure builds until the system comes apart.

Re: U.S. Consumer Bureau Loses Fight to Allow More Class-Action Suits

#180

Post by DubiousPusher » Wed, Oct 25, 2017, 6:09 PM UTC

I see a lot of hate here for lawyers who pursue Class-Action suits. I think it's pretty easy to see them as syphoning money off of problems that don't personally affect them and are often minor.

They do have one very strong value though. They act as a solution to the concentrated benefit diffuse cost problem.

The large take of a class action is essentially a honey pot that draws action when most of us would just put up with the problem because it represents a personal cost too small to care about.