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An Open Letter to Patreon

openlettertopatreon.com

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Re: An Open Letter to Patreon

#51

Post by yipopov »

Xylakant wrote: post #30
Majestic121 wrote: post #20

I agree with the overall point of shady limitations between porn and adult content leading to discrimination, but this kind of self-victimization : > Not only that, the most vulnerable among us – disproportionately queer, trans, disabled, people of color and those whose first language is not English – are literally scared for our lives. Hurts the whole speech. Is it possible to have this (valid and important) debate…

I fail to understand what's your issue with this. Are you questioning that the queer, trans, disabled, PoC are in a weaker (and often precarious) position than the cis white (male)? Or is it emotional blackmail to point out that a change (once again) hits hardest for the people that are in a weak position? Isn't it considered common decency to keep in mind the needs of the people that are weaker than us? That might j…

Come on, it sounds like these people believe the KKK is going to gather a lynch mob if they can't peddle porn through Patreon anymore.

Besides, apart from the disabled most of these are in a weak position because of their own lifestyle choices. Even certain ethnic minorities, like the African-Americans or Mexicans in the United States, are overrepresented in terms of risk-seeking behaviour through gangster culture. Not that I think they're behind the petition, it's probably all white kids from privileged families who decided to act out their teenage angst through sexual experimentation.

Re: An Open Letter to Patreon

#52

Post by graphene »

Xylakant wrote: post #30
Majestic121 wrote: post #20

I agree with the overall point of shady limitations between porn and adult content leading to discrimination, but this kind of self-victimization : > Not only that, the most vulnerable among us – disproportionately queer, trans, disabled, people of color and those whose first language is not English – are literally scared for our lives. Hurts the whole speech. Is it possible to have this (valid and important) debate…

I fail to understand what's your issue with this. Are you questioning that the queer, trans, disabled, PoC are in a weaker (and often precarious) position than the cis white (male)? Or is it emotional blackmail to point out that a change (once again) hits hardest for the people that are in a weak position? Isn't it considered common decency to keep in mind the needs of the people that are weaker than us? That might j…

It may have been the "literally scared for our lives" part.

Re: An Open Letter to Patreon

#53

Post by Certhas »

netsharc wrote: post #35
UniHacker wrote: post #17

Lol, so now banning pornographers from your site equals to discriminating against the lgbtquerty community.

I have nothing against erotica/porn and nothing against LBGT , but yeah, the open letter writer seems to be using "Why won't you think of the LBGT community?" line as a talking point, probably because accusing a company of being anti-gay is an effective weapon nowadays... somehow, saying more of this community uses their sexuality to make money (through Patreon) makes me feel "I'm sure the LGBT* accountants and bus d…

Hey, most porn out there is straight. In fact it's a multi-billion dollar industry. Really shows how the straight community uses their sexuality to make money, doesn't it?

If you don't fit the target audience of the porn industry, you have to look elsewhere, like Patreon. The mainstream porn business does not cater to everyone. That's fine. The queer market is much smaller. But it also means its over-represented on platforms like Patreon, and thus particularly hit by this change.

So what exactly do you take issue with?

Re: An Open Letter to Patreon

#54

Post by pjc50 »

DanBC wrote: post #47
_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #32

If you're living in a free country, say "Fuck" on TV.

I don't understand your point. Fuck is said very often on UK tv.

.. after 9pm.

British TV censorship used to be much weirder: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988%E2%80%9394_British_broadc...

Re: An Open Letter to Patreon

#55

Post by yipopov »

Freak_NL wrote: post #38
Majestic121 wrote: post #20

I agree with the overall point of shady limitations between porn and adult content leading to discrimination, but this kind of self-victimization : > Not only that, the most vulnerable among us – disproportionately queer, trans, disabled, people of color and those whose first language is not English – are literally scared for our lives. Hurts the whole speech. Is it possible to have this (valid and important) debate…

Demographically it is a rather odd group too. It basically includes most of the humans on Earth (i.e., first language is not English ) and excludes what comes down to heterosexual cisgender able-bodied white Americans/Australians/British/Canadians/Kiwis. That kind of exclusive categorization of people is harmful to the debate, and comes across as trollish.

Yeah, when I hear "people of color and those whose first language is not English" my mind goes to some poor untouchables who live in a slum in India, and not speaking English can't work in a call centre so they have to resort to prostitution. In which case they probably don't give a damn about Patreon's NSFW policy if they have heard of Patreon at all.

Shows how out of touch these people are with reality and the problems real people face around the world.

Re: An Open Letter to Patreon

#56

Post by nippples »

Xylakant wrote: post #30
Majestic121 wrote: post #20

I agree with the overall point of shady limitations between porn and adult content leading to discrimination, but this kind of self-victimization : > Not only that, the most vulnerable among us – disproportionately queer, trans, disabled, people of color and those whose first language is not English – are literally scared for our lives. Hurts the whole speech. Is it possible to have this (valid and important) debate…

I fail to understand what's your issue with this. Are you questioning that the queer, trans, disabled, PoC are in a weaker (and often precarious) position than the cis white (male)? Or is it emotional blackmail to point out that a change (once again) hits hardest for the people that are in a weak position? Isn't it considered common decency to keep in mind the needs of the people that are weaker than us? That might j…

If it's important to include the bit, then why stop the list there? What about apostates? Autists? Fat people? People who are otherwise unemployed?

I agree with the other poster. This feels like not only emotional blackmail, but tired, overused emotional blackmail. You can very reasonably bring up the angle of people who depend on the platform for their income without dragging around the identity politics baggage with it.

Re: An Open Letter to Patreon

#57

Post by Myrmornis »

Xylakant wrote: post #30
Majestic121 wrote: post #20

I agree with the overall point of shady limitations between porn and adult content leading to discrimination, but this kind of self-victimization : > Not only that, the most vulnerable among us – disproportionately queer, trans, disabled, people of color and those whose first language is not English – are literally scared for our lives. Hurts the whole speech. Is it possible to have this (valid and important) debate…

I fail to understand what's your issue with this. Are you questioning that the queer, trans, disabled, PoC are in a weaker (and often precarious) position than the cis white (male)? Or is it emotional blackmail to point out that a change (once again) hits hardest for the people that are in a weak position? Isn't it considered common decency to keep in mind the needs of the people that are weaker than us? That might j…

Being rational, and without arguing either way, we can certainly ask about the logic here: let's agree that the stated groups are more "vulnerable" than other people. Is the enrichment for vulnerability among the NSFW content creators a necessary part of the appeal to Patreon? Would the appeal not be reasonable, or be less compelling, if the creators were not enriched for vulnerable individuals?

Re: An Open Letter to Patreon

#58

Post by CodeWriter23 »

DanBC wrote: post #47
_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #32

If you're living in a free country, say "Fuck" on TV.

I don't understand your point. Fuck is said very often on UK tv.

Fuck is more of an adjective or conjunction in the UK, whereas in the US it’s definitely considered profanity.

Re: An Open Letter to Patreon

#59

Post by DanBC »

pjc50 wrote: post #54
DanBC wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand your point. Fuck is said very often on UK tv.

.. after 9pm. British TV censorship used to be much weirder: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988%E2%80%9394_British_broadc...

the watershed is a guideline, and you can hear fuck before 9pm.

the watershed doesn't apply to radio, and you can hear fuck any time of day on bbc radio 4, although they do try to limit it to times children won't be listening.

Re: An Open Letter to Patreon

#60

Post by vacri »

Xylakant wrote: post #30
Majestic121 wrote: post #20

I agree with the overall point of shady limitations between porn and adult content leading to discrimination, but this kind of self-victimization : > Not only that, the most vulnerable among us – disproportionately queer, trans, disabled, people of color and those whose first language is not English – are literally scared for our lives. Hurts the whole speech. Is it possible to have this (valid and important) debate…

I fail to understand what's your issue with this. Are you questioning that the queer, trans, disabled, PoC are in a weaker (and often precarious) position than the cis white (male)? Or is it emotional blackmail to point out that a change (once again) hits hardest for the people that are in a weak position? Isn't it considered common decency to keep in mind the needs of the people that are weaker than us? That might j…

Why are demographics not defined by their sexuality (disabled, PoC, english-second-language) more likely to make sexual/nudity content, and hence be more affected by this issue?

I'm big on egalitarianism, but I'm not keen on co-opting unrelated groups in order to make your case sound more important.

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