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If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools

blog.interviewing.io

341–350 of 496 posts

Re: If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools

#341
The same top tier schools claim to value diversity very much. Are you going to do better? If you decide to pull from another college at random to counteract only going to the same top five, chances are that college doesn't value diversity as much, and you'll get a less diverse candidate.

If you're focusing on good hires and not necessarily diverse ones, then yeah it's not smart to aggressively filter by school. Talent (even amazing talent) is not exclusive to any member of such a broadly defined set classification.

Re: If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools

#342

I would bet significant amounts of money that if you looked at people based on their in-job performance blinded to background you'd find insignificant contributions from education. Not interviewing, I would bet that people from top-tier schools interview very well, as I think Triplebyte discussed the other day. I'm talking about actual bottom-line performance in the job, which in my experience shows little correlatio…

I can see this being true if the people work at the same company (and already passed the same filter).

I doubt it would be true over the entire university CS populations. If the only thing you know about two applicants is their university, then the student from a top tier university will on average perform much better than the student from a low tier university.

Re: If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools

#343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I ended up at a no-name school because I got a terrible financial aid package at an elite school that I'd applied to early decision. So bailed and went to a state school for almost free.

Hey, at least you got a response. I got no return mail, not even a rejection letter. 3 tracked mails sent, 3 money orders totaling $120 (a princely sum for 1987), and no return mail. It was like a torture session picking up the mail at the box everyday (I had a break between high school classes, so I was the mailbox keyholder). Luckily, I also applied at the state school and got a pretty good package. Would have been…

>the local community college classes were only like $15 per credit hour for high school seniors

One of the beautiful things about softwars tech is that it has offered people opportunities to self-teach and build a portfolio of their own credentials, by their own determination. This has given ordinary people the opportunity to build things that benefit others.

On the other end of the spectrum, we have privileged rich kids attending Harvard, many of whom go on to work in finance or consulting, and who knows what they produce that is useful in the world.

I would really love to see the idea that we need to open up on the limitations of world-class educations and credentials become part of the mainstream discussion.

There is almost no reason the first two years of, which are often filled with gen-ed requirements often taught in laughably huge lecture halls by uninterested staff, not be open to everyone in the world. We need a new model that promotes this--Harvard classes should be open to everyone and that includes the tests and credits as well.

And why not? The War on Poverty in America has spent trillions of dollars with little to nothing to show for it in terms of reducing poverty. Of all this money spent, one of the first things I would have done would have been to ensure everyone has the greatest opportunities available to them. There's no good reason to hold them hostage, unless you care about profit or prestige more than increasing opportunity and reducing inequality.

Re: If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools

#344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google's interviewing process is incongruously uneven compared to the rest of the company, which is top-notch. I recommend giving it another thought. (Disclaimer: ex-Googler.)

Why is that I have worked for a big multi national tech company and unless you had passed a 3 day course you where not allowed to interview candidates. I would have thought that googles Hr would have a better proccess

My theory: Google started by hiring only new grads from Stanford and then a few other top schools.

1. They're only interested in new grads, so experienced people are treated funny; they're outliers.

2. They're only interested in top schools, which act as a pre-filter. Anyone interviewed is probably a good hire anyway, so it doesn't matter whether your process is goofy.

3. We are talking Google. Anyone under the age of 30 is slobbering all over themselves to work for them.

Keep this up for a few generations and their hiring process is permanently wacky.

Re: If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools

#345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree - and this is even more true at state schools than the slightly more selective schools (like RPI that I went to). State schools have people that got into MIT, but didn't go for financial reasons or family reasons. Nobody at RPI got into MIT because if they did they would have gone to MIT (maybe some rare exception exists, but this is generally true). School admission is obviously not a perfect indicator of ab…

> This is even ignoring the 'diversity' angle - a lot of really great people are missed because it's hard to break in without knowing someone or having the right credentials. That is literally the diversity angle.

No, the 'diversity' angle is frequently tied to things like skin color, sex, ethnicity, heritage, etc. You can have two people that match in all of those categories but one chose to go to a state school because of a family issue and then they will be ignored by Google.

This is not something any diversity program I know of in the big companies is trying to address.

Re: If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools

#346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe they did -- from what I've read back in the day it was quite common for Google to demand college transcripts from all applicants, even seasoned professionals.

That would be to check that the degree is real. There are people who pretend to have one while they don't. It's normal due diligence, assuming it's after you are hired.

Companies don't ask for transcripts because there's already services they can use to verify degree (and even enrollment).

Re: If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools

#347
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's bad, and it matches that of the schools we recruit from. I don't understand this. If you're matching the diversity of the market, that would seem to me that your recruiting practices are unbiased, which is good, right?

They are matching the diversity of the schools' recruiting efforts. So yes, you could say they are (perhaps) unbiased vs their input, but their input has problems. In other words, their selection of schools to recruit from means they are outsourcing the distribution of your their candidate pool, and the GP poster is not happy with that aspect of the result. If it doesn't match your society or customer base, and you t…

> They are matching the diversity of the schools' recruiting efforts.

I think many undergrad schools actually positively discriminate based on gender/race for underrepresented minorities.

Re: If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools

#348
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They just don't understand that some people like me, who can get into the (mostly private) elite schools choose to go to a "long tail" school for a variety of reasons (financial, family obligations, etc). Agreed--I was accepted everywhere I applied save one and I ended up going to the University of Maine. I've never hurt for work and I paid off my student loans by the age of 25. Google sniffs around now (aside: rec…

A Google interviewer definitely shouldn't be doing that. Sounds like you got a bad one.

In theory, theory and practice are the same thing....

Re: If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools

#349

When I was at Google, I was asked if I wanted to make a recruiting trip to my alma mater. I was excited until I found out they were talking about my grad school where I got my MS, and not UB, a large state school where I got my BS. I told them I'd be happy to take a trip to recruit at UB. I got mostly crickets back from that reply. However, I ended up getting signed up for a series where they had a panel of a few HR…

UB has(/had?) a pretty decent CS department too. Bioinformatics as well.

Dropping out of that place was still one of the best decisions I've ever made though.

Re: If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools

#350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree - and this is even more true at state schools than the slightly more selective schools (like RPI that I went to). State schools have people that got into MIT, but didn't go for financial reasons or family reasons. Nobody at RPI got into MIT because if they did they would have gone to MIT (maybe some rare exception exists, but this is generally true). School admission is obviously not a perfect indicator of ab…

Nobody at RPI got into MIT because if they did they would have gone to MIT (maybe some rare exception exists, but this is generally true). One exception at least. One of my fraternity brothers at RPI came to beautiful Troy, NY when he had the option of MIT. There really are good reasons for such a choice. The schools that are so famous for their top-end research are achieving that research success by having those eli…

Most of the best professors I have had were researchers teaching they favorite subject. Most of the worst were "CS education" types who should have been good teachers.
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