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If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools

blog.interviewing.io

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Re: If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools

#281

Post by dogruck »

obstacle1 wrote: post #260
dogruck wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your definition?

This seems like a deflection. It's totally legit to ask you what your definition of the 'best' candidate is, because you made a claim: that the best people come from the top schools. How are we to conclude that your argument has any worth whatsoever when you aren't able to even define the components of the claim you are making?

We all know that "best" is subjective, and defined by each company.

Google is fairly vocal about their efforts to apply a somewhat scientific approach to comparing their hiring decisions to the subsequent performance of the candidates they ultimately hire. Here is an article, titled "Google's Secret to Hiring the Best People": https://www.wired.com/2015/04/hire-like-google/

Here's an article about how Steve Jobs wanted to "Hire the Best" http://recruitloop.com/blog/steve-jobs-top-hiring-tip-hire-t...

My personal definition is "high probability of excelling at the work that is outlined in the job description."

Re: If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools

#282

Post by sgwae »

wolco wrote: post #199
ebogart wrote: post #131

This article strikes a particularly strong chord with me. I am a student, probably in between the second and third examples, and it is so unbelievably hard to get an interview. I wasn't even aware it was so easy for students at top schools. This is frustrating because college admission for many essentially comes down to the first year or two of high school. That can't be a good indicator of developer performance. May…

College brand means very little for developers.

At my company, students at target schools (vt, umd, etc) are offered 20k more than non target.

Re: If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools

#283

Post by eastWestMath »

kobeya wrote: post #266
mypalmike wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. When I pushed a bit at (well-known tech company), I managed to get a couple of high-GPA CS students from my state university into the internship interview pipeline. These students were personally recommended to me by the school's top (IMO) CS professor. I was particularly excited for one of them, who had a 3.9-something GPA, and who seemed pretty solid technically when I spoke with him on the phone. Unfo…

Or the top schools prepare their candidates for the test. I think I’m a pretty decent coder, thank you very much, but I suck on those blackboard interviews. I could see that being fixed with practice though, and maybe the big schools format their classes and labs such as to practice for that?

Every professor I know who’s involved with programming contests is pretty open that it’s about passing programming tests.

Re: If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools

#285

Post by Manishearth »

Bartweiss wrote: post #183
jldugger wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They just don't understand that some people like me, who can get into the (mostly private) elite schools choose to go to a "long tail" school Can you really expect any different from a company founded from within the halls of Stanford, and then staffed primarily from there? On the other hand, I bet if you sat down and ran the numbers, recruiting from state schools isn't productive. For better or worse, school selec…

> Cherry picking your one Anthony per school is likely harder than showing up to Stanford where they picked cherries 4 years ago. An interesting idea: pulling from state schools isn't a problem because they're short on talent, it's a problem because recruiters and interviewers are bad at identifying talent. Colleges get a transcript, SATs, and essays to make a decision on, then do four years of further sorting. That'…

Of course, this means outsourcing the decision back in time, too. You're basically hiring for "the best students by from four years ago" the moment you factor the college into the question.

Re: If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools

#286

Post by erobbins »

So maybe I'm missing something, but the graph of the "distribution of school tiers on interviewing.io" is nearly identical to the 1% line in the "where 25 year olds went to school" chart.

Not sure how this is really any different than just sourcing from top schools?

Re: If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools

#287

Post by pfschell »

guelo wrote: post #43
pfschell wrote: post #29

This article treats "CS graduates" as interchangeable cogs, where the only variables are race, parents' income, and where they grew up. The reality is that particular tech companies have very specific needs around the kind of training someone has. CS curricula vary widely in terms of technologies and depths covered, and applicability to real world problems. A company like Apple has litte use for someone who has only…

Firstly, for the most part CS schools don't train students on "IT-focused Java" or "web middleware", whatever that is. Most schools try to teach the fundamentals. Secondly, a developer that masters and shows proficiency in any complex software ecosystem, including Java and web middleware, is going to have transferable skills valuable to any software company.

>Most schools try to teach the fundamentals.

No, they don't. Read as many thousands of resumes from across the planet as I have, then get back to me.

Re: If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools

#288

Post by throwaway76543 »

user5994461 wrote: post #267
FreakyT wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe they did -- from what I've read back in the day it was quite common for Google to demand college transcripts from all applicants, even seasoned professionals.

That would be to check that the degree is real. There are people who pretend to have one while they don't. It's normal due diligence, assuming it's after you are hired.

No, it wasn't. They also used to ask for high school transcripts if you didn't graduate college -- even for senior folks with decades of experience.

Google's interviewing process used to be extremely absurd. They have reformed it somewhat since around 2013.

Re: If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools

#289

Post by vilmosi »

TuringNYC wrote: post #278
vilmosi wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>> No, most asians of my generation did not have it easier Again, statistically. On average, people of all colors don't have an uncle at a hedge fund... >>> So to answer your question: No, we Asian-Americans dont have it easier, most of us simply overcompensated at great personal cost. In NY... The irony... And that's if you're anecdotes are true.

>> Again, statistically. On average, people of all colors don't have an uncle at a hedge fund... Huge numbers of people I went to undergrad with had uncles at hedge funds or big law firms. Those are the people I was competing with for entrance. You're absolutely right, I was never competing with many people in the Midwest (of all races) who had it worse than me because large populations amongst the Ivy League schools…

>>> Huge numbers of people I went to undergrad with had uncles at hedge funds or big law firms.

Yes, in a top school in NY.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not for "penalising" or "rewarding" anyone for their skin color. I hope you didn't get that message from me.

I am way more into personalised life experience reward/penalty system. And that should be limited to scholarships based on socio economic situation, not test scores.

Re: If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools

#290

Post by chiefalchemist »

Further proof that SV use of the word diversity is closer to a euphemism for assimulation. That is, diversity isn't a source for different backgrounds and experiences; but a biological signal to be optimized in order to maximize public perception, while ideas remain essentially the same.
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