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If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools

blog.interviewing.io

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Re: If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools

#91
post #62

Might be off track, Is there anyone who used interviewing.io and landed a job? How was the experience using interviewing.io? I tried signing up some 2 years ago, it said they are in a private beta and they have been there ever since.

Shoot me an email, and I'll gladly get you an account. aline@interviewing.io

Just tacking a question on here - when creating a student account, should I be setting my location to where I’m attending school or where I’m planning on being after graduating?

Looks like interviewing.io is tackling a big issue. :-)

Re: If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools

#92
This article hit home for me because I see it all the time. I go to a large state school where a 2-3 of the Big4 show up to recruit, but undergrads rarely get offers. We don't pass technical screens (partly on us, partly on the focus of our DS&A classes), and very often we don't even get interviews.

I think about this all the time and it concerns me. I'll never get into a top school now but I do have a big4 internship on my resume on an in-demand ML team - yet, I'm still going to be looked down upon compared to someone that goes to UIUC or Duke at minimum, not even considering people at HYPSM.

Sometimes I wondered if there's a point in trying if I'm already so far behind.

Re: If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools

#93

When I was at Google, I was asked if I wanted to make a recruiting trip to my alma mater. I was excited until I found out they were talking about my grad school where I got my MS, and not UB, a large state school where I got my BS. I told them I'd be happy to take a trip to recruit at UB. I got mostly crickets back from that reply. However, I ended up getting signed up for a series where they had a panel of a few HR…

The odd thing is, the university I went to, not in the US, is ranked a bit higher than UB in the international rankings, but definitely the same general area. And it gets lots of attention from Google recruiters and those from similar companies, I believe. The interviews are still fairly hard work, I hear, but they seem less fussy about universities outside the US.

Re: If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools

#94
I went to a non-top tier undergraduate school. I made efforts--at big companies as well as the one I founded--to recruit from my alma mater. I ended up defaulting to NYU, Harvard and Stanford.

Career services at non-top tier schools are shit. Once, as a personal favor, I offered to help a company with a well-known CEO recruit from my state school. When I brought it up with a dean I knew, career services got mad. They said I should have gone through them first. Guarding their gatekeeping function was of greater concern than doing their job. They then suggested this CEO come to their fall freshman career fair. I said no, it's a high-profile company, they'd prefer if you curated a list for them. (MIT and NYU, amongst others, do this.) No response.

Consider, too, that 90% of recent-college graduate recruiting (in finance, at least) is less about finding brilliance than finding someone who won't make dumb mistakes. The Ivy League produces a consistent product. They hold no monopoly on genius. But the variance around others' outputs is too high for a young firm.

All that said, I never turn down an outbound email. (It's how I broke into the industry.) I also think it's important, as your firm develops, to keep an eye on broadening recruiting.

Closing note: in response to recent news, I started thinking about our workplace's gender diversity. It's bad, and it matches that of the schools we recruit from.

Re: If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools

#95
post #80

When I was at Google, I was asked if I wanted to make a recruiting trip to my alma mater. I was excited until I found out they were talking about my grad school where I got my MS, and not UB, a large state school where I got my BS. I told them I'd be happy to take a trip to recruit at UB. I got mostly crickets back from that reply. However, I ended up getting signed up for a series where they had a panel of a few HR…

I work at Google and have done some university recruiting (not a ton, but some) and I have not had this experience. Recently I saw a list of hundreds of schools of all sizes and locations that we were committed to sending reps to, so I think Google is actually way out ahead of the field when it comes to not only looking at Ivy League / Stanford / MIT.

That was not the case two years ago. And maybe that's changed, but there's some prove-it here.

Re: If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools

#96

When I was at Google, I was asked if I wanted to make a recruiting trip to my alma mater. I was excited until I found out they were talking about my grad school where I got my MS, and not UB, a large state school where I got my BS. I told them I'd be happy to take a trip to recruit at UB. I got mostly crickets back from that reply. However, I ended up getting signed up for a series where they had a panel of a few HR…

> They just don't understand that some people like me, who can get into the (mostly private) elite schools choose to go to a "long tail" school Can you really expect any different from a company founded from within the halls of Stanford, and then staffed primarily from there? On the other hand, I bet if you sat down and ran the numbers, recruiting from state schools isn't productive. For better or worse, school selec…

I’ve worked for startups where nearly all of the early employees were from one university, because it’s easier to recruit that way for a small startup. But they grew out of it after a few years. It’s stranger to be still doing much the same thing decades down the road.

Re: If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools

#97

This article treats "CS graduates" as interchangeable cogs, where the only variables are race, parents' income, and where they grew up. The reality is that particular tech companies have very specific needs around the kind of training someone has. CS curricula vary widely in terms of technologies and depths covered, and applicability to real world problems. A company like Apple has litte use for someone who has only…

New grads are never hired for a particular skillset. No one is an expert on the unix kernel or hardware design or iOS internals out of college. Apple hires smart people and teaches them these skills. Same with Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Amazon and every other large tech company.

Re: If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools

#98

This article treats "CS graduates" as interchangeable cogs, where the only variables are race, parents' income, and where they grew up. The reality is that particular tech companies have very specific needs around the kind of training someone has. CS curricula vary widely in terms of technologies and depths covered, and applicability to real world problems. A company like Apple has litte use for someone who has only…

I'm pretty sure that there is almost no difference in terms of talent between someone who graduated from MIT vs someone who graduated from any other decent university around the world. They share more or less the same curriculum. The main difference is that MIT has more reputable professors and the children have richer parents. Reputable professors are not necessarily the best teachers... Especially at the undergrad…

I went to a state school. Most of my professors also taught at a larger name school across town. My classes were half the cost with half the number of students. I believe I got the same education for less and probably got a lot more face to face time with my professors in the process.

The name of the school means very little to me as a result of my experiences. Especially now that I interview a lot of people and have a really hard time seeing any differences between them based on education.

Hats off to the folks who got the great education at a discount. In a way they may have made the smarter decision.

Re: If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools

#99
post #65

When I was at Google, I was asked if I wanted to make a recruiting trip to my alma mater. I was excited until I found out they were talking about my grad school where I got my MS, and not UB, a large state school where I got my BS. I told them I'd be happy to take a trip to recruit at UB. I got mostly crickets back from that reply. However, I ended up getting signed up for a series where they had a panel of a few HR…

> They just don't understand that some people like me, who can get into the (mostly private) elite schools choose to go to a "long tail" school for a variety of reasons (financial, family obligations, etc). Agreed--I was accepted everywhere I applied save one and I ended up going to the University of Maine. I've never hurt for work and I paid off my student loans by the age of 25. Google sniffs around now (aside: rec…

If the biases start with the university imagine how deep it goes.

Re: If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools

#100

This article treats "CS graduates" as interchangeable cogs, where the only variables are race, parents' income, and where they grew up. The reality is that particular tech companies have very specific needs around the kind of training someone has. CS curricula vary widely in terms of technologies and depths covered, and applicability to real world problems. A company like Apple has litte use for someone who has only…

I'm pretty sure that there is almost no difference in terms of talent between someone who graduated from MIT vs someone who graduated from any other decent university around the world. They share more or less the same curriculum. The main difference is that MIT has more reputable professors and the children have richer parents. Reputable professors are not necessarily the best teachers... Especially at the undergrad…

> The main difference is that MIT has more reputable professors and the children have richer parents.

Harvard, maybe. MIT? Their undergrads are great — of the interns we get, MIT and Cal Tech undergrads are leaps and bounds above those from other schools.

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