Is your city getting ready for autonomous vehicles? • Hacker News Board

Re: Is your city getting ready for autonomous vehicles?

#21

Post by bproven » Tue, Oct 24, 2017, 5:55 PM UTC

trophycase wrote: post #19

kbos87 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree 100%. Making driving easier and more convenient isn’t going to solve our transit problems, it’s going to make them worse. Just look at what is happening with ridesharing services - people choosing them over public transit because they make it a little easier to get from point A to point B. The same thing will happen with autonomous vehicles. I agree that there are benefits for the last mile of the suburbs and c…

This isn't really true. For example, I'm going to see a show in SF and taking the Caltrain only because I can Lyft the remaining distance to the venue. Otherwise I would be driving the whole way.

That's probably what was meant by "last mile":

>"...I agree that there are benefits for the last mile of the >suburbs and countryside, ..."

:)

A good solution would be great public transportation and ride sharing working together. It doesn't have to be black or white.

Re: Is your city getting ready for autonomous vehicles?

#22

Post by fragsworth » Tue, Oct 24, 2017, 6:05 PM UTC

Someone wrote: post #8

That’s not “getting ready for”, it’s “experimenting with”. Also, cities (mostly) shouldn’t have to “get ready” for self-driving cars; self-driving cars should start self-driving in current cities.

But there are a lot of effects on the city as a result, which the city should prepare for. For example, parking lots will be less necessary in zoning rules, when people use Uber-like apps and self driving cars.

Re: Is your city getting ready for autonomous vehicles?

#23

Post by rrhyne » Tue, Oct 24, 2017, 7:08 PM UTC

LeanderK wrote: post #16

rrhyne wrote: post #7

IMO, making it easier to drive will increase the number of people who commute. There isn’t enough space to add extra lanes to facilitate the increase in traffic these vehicles will cause. I think we should be working on other transportation problems.

I don't agree. Self-driving cars can solve the "last-mile" problem and I am convinced that they are actually the most important tool for building the 21. century public-transportation. At least in Europe, public transportation is usually pretty good already and there is a lot of capacity left unused because while trains are going relatively deep into the suburbs and countryside, they only serve those living next to i…

I like this point. My concern is people using autonomous vehicles to commute.

Re: Is your city getting ready for autonomous vehicles?

#24

Post by Someone » Tue, Oct 24, 2017, 7:23 PM UTC

fragsworth wrote: post #22

Someone wrote: post #8

That’s not “getting ready for”, it’s “experimenting with”. Also, cities (mostly) shouldn’t have to “get ready” for self-driving cars; self-driving cars should start self-driving in current cities.

But there are a lot of effects on the city as a result, which the city should prepare for. For example, parking lots will be less necessary in zoning rules, when people use Uber-like apps and self driving cars.

I’m far from convinced we can already draw that conclusion.

People currently are willing to spend quite a bit more than necessary to own an extension of their home (and, in some cases, their ego) that brings them to work.

If self-driving cars become affordable, I am not sure that will change. For example, people who can afford to will still want to store stuff (sports equipment, spare sets of clothing, and baby seats) in their cars, just as they do now, so that they have to move it less often.

Also, for driving to work, I don’t see self-driving cars make more than one trip a day, and cities would likely prefer most self-driving cars to park during the day, rather than circle around town.

So, given that we don’t really know the effect self-driving cars will have, I don’t think cities can start guessing at the required infrastructure, given that it will be expensive and take decades to build.

On the other hand, cities can do one thing that is known to be good, regardless whether self driving cars will need less parking: build more and better cycling infrastructure.

Re: Is your city getting ready for autonomous vehicles?

#25

Post by Can_Not » Tue, Oct 24, 2017, 9:24 PM UTC

pavement wrote: post #12

point78 wrote: post #6

Can we fix polluting vehicles first?

Unfortunately, no, because all of the current owners of said vehicles are incredibly possessive and covetous of such objects, and prone to exerting their influence of similar attitudes over their peers. Self driving cars, owned by faceless organizations can be silently converted after the fact, effectively subverting the psychological ploy of keeping-up-with-the-joneses style peer pressure, which has held a death gri…

> Unfortunately, no, because all of the current owners of said vehicles are incredibly possessive and covetous of such objects

I think most of us can't afford to take out $10,000-$250,000 loans to replace working assets we already own that have 5-10 good years left on them.

Re: Is your city getting ready for autonomous vehicles?

#26

Post by mrgreenfur » Tue, Oct 24, 2017, 9:28 PM UTC

QAPereo wrote: post #15

criddell wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the same time, self driving cars could use the roads more efficiently (once they make up most traffic). I think you're generally right though. I know if I had a self driving car, I'd move further out of the city. If it adds to my commute time, I won't care if I can do other things while I commute (work, read, write, sleep, etc...).

At the same time, self driving cars could use the roads more efficiently (once they make up most traffic). That last step is quite a doozy though.

They could do it sooner with dedicated lanes that run faster / more efficient, just like HOV lanes today.

Re: Is your city getting ready for autonomous vehicles?

#27

Post by pavement » Wed, Oct 25, 2017, 12:34 AM UTC

Can_Not wrote: post #25

pavement wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, no, because all of the current owners of said vehicles are incredibly possessive and covetous of such objects, and prone to exerting their influence of similar attitudes over their peers. Self driving cars, owned by faceless organizations can be silently converted after the fact, effectively subverting the psychological ploy of keeping-up-with-the-joneses style peer pressure, which has held a death gri…

> Unfortunately, no, because all of the current owners of said vehicles are incredibly possessive and covetous of such objects I think most of us can't afford to take out $10,000-$250,000 loans to replace working assets we already own that have 5-10 good years left on them.

Oh, but what about wealthy corporations rendering autonomous vehicle services, either as their primary offering, or as an ancillary side business?

You could own shares in such a company, purchase a subscription to summon vehicles at a rate, or buy a vehicle and resell its autonomy, offsetting the expense. One might view some of these options as a form of collective ownership, and so it might not just be you owning one on your own, but maybe contributing to the partial ownership of one or more vehicles.

Re: Is your city getting ready for autonomous vehicles?

#28

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Oct 25, 2017, 7:19 AM UTC

Tiktaalik wrote: post #17

LeanderK wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree. Self-driving cars can solve the "last-mile" problem and I am convinced that they are actually the most important tool for building the 21. century public-transportation. At least in Europe, public transportation is usually pretty good already and there is a lot of capacity left unused because while trains are going relatively deep into the suburbs and countryside, they only serve those living next to i…

Cheaper, more efficient and better "last mile" solutions: Bicycle share in protected bike lanes, a pleasant walk.

[deleted]

Re: Is your city getting ready for autonomous vehicles?

#29

Post by icebraining » Wed, Oct 25, 2017, 7:37 AM UTC

Tiktaalik wrote: post #17

LeanderK wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree. Self-driving cars can solve the "last-mile" problem and I am convinced that they are actually the most important tool for building the 21. century public-transportation. At least in Europe, public transportation is usually pretty good already and there is a lot of capacity left unused because while trains are going relatively deep into the suburbs and countryside, they only serve those living next to i…

Cheaper, more efficient and better "last mile" solutions: Bicycle share in protected bike lanes, a pleasant walk.

Generally yes, but you still need a solution for the cases not covered by those, like my 84-year-old neighbor who has kidney dialysis twice a week, and who can't really walk more than a few meters anymore.

The trick is to cover every case but nudge people to take the less demanding option if they can. Easier said than done, though.

Re: Is your city getting ready for autonomous vehicles?

#30

Post by Can_Not » Wed, Oct 25, 2017, 12:57 PM UTC

pavement wrote: post #27

Can_Not wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unfortunately, no, because all of the current owners of said vehicles are incredibly possessive and covetous of such objects I think most of us can't afford to take out $10,000-$250,000 loans to replace working assets we already own that have 5-10 good years left on them.

Oh, but what about wealthy corporations rendering autonomous vehicle services, either as their primary offering, or as an ancillary side business? You could own shares in such a company, purchase a subscription to summon vehicles at a rate, or buy a vehicle and resell its autonomy, offsetting the expense. One might view some of these options as a form of collective ownership, and so it might not just be you owning on…

I don't live in a place where any of that stuff will be practical or is coming for the next 5 years.