Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring • Hacker News Board

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#541

Post by davidw » Mon, Oct 23, 2017, 9:19 PM UTC

rdtsc wrote: post #461

softawre wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that's really such a waste then where are all the remote-only companies eating everybody's lunch? Has it not yet been long enough since remote working has reached some workable peak?

> If that's really such a waste then where are all the remote-only companies eating everybody's lunch? Maybe they are eating it? Facebook, Amazon, and Google just have a very large buffet and it would take a while for them to notice. Heck, I am taking little bytes (pun intended) every day ;-) But seriously, I believe that could be the next revolution in the economy. We had the industrial revolution, the technological…

Something like that?

    consume_remote_work(>) ->
        Do_something(Byte);
    consume_remot_work(>) ->
         do_something(Byte),
         consume_remote_work(Rest).

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#542

Post by lisper » Mon, Oct 23, 2017, 9:20 PM UTC

linkregister wrote: post #524

lisper wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> undeveloped land is not very useful I love hiking in redwood forests. I love peace and quiet. I love not having to deal with traffic. So I think undeveloped land is very useful.

Nobody has recommended this straw man of a proposal. This is an example of an argument made in bad faith. The topic is development of single-story housing into apartments. The Bay Area is rife with short houses around transit terminals. You would have less traffic in the Valley if there were more apartments, so employees could bike and walk to work. They now commute from neighboring cities.

> You would have less traffic in the Valley if there were more apartments, so employees could bike and walk to work.

This assumes that all of the houses vacated by currently commuting employees moving into apartments near transit (and thus becoming non-commuters) would be replaced by people who don't commute. But that's extremely unlikely to be the case.

Furthermore, all of the people living near transit would still drive on occasion, so traffic would almost certainly get worse.

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#543

Post by davidw » Mon, Oct 23, 2017, 9:20 PM UTC

Feniks wrote: post #513

davidw wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there are simply too many people and not enough space for them all to live in the nice places. Tokyo added more housing than the entire state of California: https://www.vox.com/2016/8/8/12390048/san-francisco-housing-... And as someone who lived in Europe for a while, I think we've had the technology to house a fair number of people in desirable area for several hundred years. It's the political will that's lacking…

Americans think government is evil and all that. So there's no government rescue plan to build more housing because that's commie talk. So everyone's waiting for the market to fix it.

The market would absolutely produce more housing in a lot of places were there not a ton of regulations in place to stop it from doing so.

And I don't write that as a fingers-in-ears, market-will-solve-all-problems libertarian, but as a fairly left-wing guy.

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#544

Post by hx87 » Mon, Oct 23, 2017, 9:21 PM UTC

s0rce wrote: post #292

jorblumesea wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about regular people? Is everyone expected to be some high paid unicorn/big 4 engineer? Society is more than just rich techies.

"Regular people" in big populated urban areas can't expect to own a detached home, they can live in condos/apartments like they do in Asian cities, NYC and other densely populated cities.

That's why they tore down all the single family houses in Sunset & Richmond to make way for 5 story apartment blocks. Oh wait...

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#545

Post by lisper » Mon, Oct 23, 2017, 9:23 PM UTC

taysic wrote: post #397

lisper wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best places to live are the best in no small measure because they are underpopulated. The SF peninsula is one of the most desirable (and expensive) areas in the greater bay area in no small measure because very few people live there, so we have less traffic, hiking trails, horse properties, peace and quiet.

I don’t disagree with you. I wonder at which point is it unethical to build more office space if the Bay Area has determined it prefers peace and quiet. Jobs can then relocate to places that want growth.

If you want to advocate for a state law that requires all new commercial development be accompanied by corresponding residential development close enough that workers can commute by transit or bicycle, I would totally support that. I think it would be a hard sell, but might be doable.

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#546

Post by beatpanda » Mon, Oct 23, 2017, 9:24 PM UTC

beatpanda wrote: post #289

nimbius wrote: post #16

Most of the bay area employees are divided into 3 categories from anecdotal experience: young rockstars that are willing to live in relative squalor for a chance to prove themselves, vested and moneyed elites (CEO's, presidents, VC funded overlords) who are so out of touch with the average employee its best they not show up to the office that frequently, and H1B visa recipients that endure the soul-crushing San Jose…

> Rising levels of increasingly aggressive homeless Citation needed. The most recent data on this disagrees with you.

Cool, loving the downvotes here from people who didn't bother to read the results of the SF homeless count this year, which showed that the number of people on the street decreased over the last two years. Great community we've got here.

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#547

Post by SiVal » Mon, Oct 23, 2017, 9:26 PM UTC

Feniks wrote: post #513

davidw wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there are simply too many people and not enough space for them all to live in the nice places. Tokyo added more housing than the entire state of California: https://www.vox.com/2016/8/8/12390048/san-francisco-housing-... And as someone who lived in Europe for a while, I think we've had the technology to house a fair number of people in desirable area for several hundred years. It's the political will that's lacking…

Americans think government is evil and all that. So there's no government rescue plan to build more housing because that's commie talk. So everyone's waiting for the market to fix it.

You really think the problem of refusing to build more housing in San Francisco would be solved if only you could get rid of the right-wingers who have run the place for years? Oh if only leftists had a chance to run the government for a change, they'd build plenty of housing, but the right-wingers who have made all their policies for years call that "commie talk"....

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#548

Post by davidw » Mon, Oct 23, 2017, 9:28 PM UTC

ghaff wrote: post #436

lisper wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what exactly is wrong with NIMBY-ism? Not everyone likes living in dense cities. I don't see anything wrong with groups of people who prefer to live in less dense development working together to create less dense places to live. The problem is that there are (as I said) more people who prefer to live in less dense development than there is space to accommodate them all. At that point, the market takes over and de…

NIMBY is such a tired criticism. I live in an exurban/rural town on the East Coast. My town pretty consistently votes against major developments. We like the apple orchards and forest land like it is. We don’t want suburban style developments that increase traffic and taxes or industrial development outside of the light industry on the north side of town near the highway. If you want to call it NIMBY go ahead. As far…

If you want to keep wild lands, the best way to do so is to increase density where people already live.

And the best way to do that is probably via a market-based, incremental approach: not everyone is going to sell out and turn their SFH into flats right away - it'd be gradual.

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#549

Post by lisper » Mon, Oct 23, 2017, 9:29 PM UTC

linkregister wrote: post #528

lisper wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are lots of cheap places to live in the US that are still very nice For example? > you just don't want to live there. Obviously, it's not just me. If lots of people wanted to live in these supposed cheap, nice places they'd all be moving there instead of norcal.

There are nice, cheap places all over NorCal, but the expensive part is where the jobs are. Fort Bragg and Redding are absolutely gorgeous but they do not have a dense tech job market.

Fort Bragg and Redding are cold and foggy much of the time. Silicon Valley is in an ideal location. There are low-lying hills that keep the fog away, but it still gets enough ocean influence that it doesn't get too hot.

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#550

Post by grzm » Mon, Oct 23, 2017, 9:31 PM UTC

Mz wrote: post #537

grzm wrote: post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For another anecdotal perspective, I don't read your initial inquiry or its response as particularly problematic. I can understand why you might feel disappointed or frustrated. I don't read their short response as defensive, but rather as a more genuine expression that they're not interested in doing much more than what they've already done, rather than them not taking you seriously. One might misread your opening q…

I appreciate your comment. I mean that sincerely. But, here is the rut I can't find any way out of that I tried to avoid commenting on because it seems like a great way to put out the fire with gasoline, but I am a woman. So when I came to Hacker News, if men talked to me at all, I either got shitty condescending pat on the head encouragement ("You should do a website on X topic" by someone who obviously had not look…

Sorry you're having a sucktastic week. As you know there's little I personally can do in an HN comment to make that better. I also know you think deeply about a lot of things, so I'm quite certain there's little I can say that you haven't thought of or come across before.

One concrete thing I'm doing that helps me is find someone to meet with on a regular basis to talk about progress on things we individually find important, things we want to work on. We use this to hold each other accountable for progress in these areas and to bounce ideas off each other. I know there are groups out there where people support each other in their entrepreneurial endeavors (I think I've heard these referred to as "Masterminds" groups); that's not what I'm doing, but the common thread is people (or just two people, in my case) getting together to get feedback and support on their personal goals.

I know how frustrating it can be when you feel stuck. (There are stronger words, but I'm purposefully not using them). I hope things get better for you and that you can find a way to feel that you're making progress.