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Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

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Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#371

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I'm fairly early in my career at a company ( 80-10-10 mortgage on a 1mil home is only 100k down. And the monthly payments split by 2 people (aka a couple) is ~2k / person / month. That's 4k/month all in once you include the tax rebates.

That puts you in the "out of touch" category. 100k down is unimaginable for the vast majority.

FANG will offer > 100k in RSUs over 4 years. And some people are getting 100k+ sign on bonuses.

FANG companies often pay 200k+ / year total comp. Getting 100k of capital between 2 people in the bay area is doable.

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I wouldn't want to say these people are representative of the state as a whole, it gets worse: Gallatin GOP Women official says she 'would have shot' reporter Gianforte assaulted http://helenair.com/news/politics/state/gallatin-gop-women-o...

We do have entertaining politics, much like everywhere else. That said, there's always a yin to the yang. https://www.hrc.org/blog/montana-governor-steve-bullock-sign...

Yeah, those far-right yahoos aren't anything like the people from Montana that I have known.

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#373
post #108

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In which of the above 3 categories would you put the Google/Facebook/Apple employees making 200-300k+ per year? I can't speak towards family living, but as a single person willing to live with roommates, you can find pretty nice places in the heart of Silicon Valley for ~$1000/month. Now add in compensation-packages well over 6 figures, brand-name companies for your resume, networking locally with other great enginee…

If you saw how I live here in small-town Kansas working remotely for a typical SFBA salary, you might reconsider. It's a fantastic life for me and my family. Maybe it's where I'm at in my career but I've never had a hard time moving jobs, either. I get recruiters reaching out regularly for other remote gigs.

If you're living in Kansas on a SFBA salary, you're living the dream. Kudos to you. Unfortunately, most new college graduates aren't going to get those kind of opportunities.

If someone really wants to emulate your lifestyle, they would be best served working in SFBA for the first 5-10 years of their career, so as to build out their resume. Once you're more established and have an impressive resume, it's so much easier to find lucrative remote gigs.

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#374

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> It makes me wonder that as the young rockstars and H1B recipients age, where will they go? They certainly can't afford to buy a house. I imagine as time goes on, companies in the Bay Area will be awash with young junior talent but will struggle to attract more senior folks. They leave for more affordable cities or head back home to be close to family when they decide to have kids. EDIT: May I offer up Tampa as a ye…

Definitely true. Even other nominally 'expensive' cities can attract away Bay Area expats if they're less comprehensively pricy. NYC has the same problem as SF: it's hell to get in and out, and no one is building new units with easy access to the city center. (LA likewise.) But Boston, DC, Houston, and other very big cities are way more forgiving to people willing to commute 20-50 minutes in return for some decently-…

And in the case of Boston many/most of the tech jobs still aren’t in the city itself although that’s shifted a fair bit. That’s a big difference between cities. In the Bay Area it’s hard to get away from very high prices. 45 to 60 minutes out of Boston in many directions and you’re into relatively reasonably priced housing.

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm fairly early in my career at a company ( 80-10-10 mortgage on a 1mil home is only 100k down. And the monthly payments split by 2 people (aka a couple) is ~2k / person / month. That's 4k/month all in once you include the tax rebates.

You kidding right? 100k down? 2K mortgage? These are insane numbers that very few people can afford even in the tech community.

No, these aren't insane. However, they are much lower than reality.

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#376
post #71

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Live in Denver. This is a little too real. There's a very real irony to the people that move here that "hate the bay" then act, vote, and do everything in their power to make it exactly like SF.

> then act, vote, and do everything in their power to make it exactly like SF I won't lie, during my time in Portland I def experienced some schadenfreude when California-native drivers complained about tickets for failing to yield to pedestrians.

Clearly they are not from Berkeley.

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#377
post #168

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100K down but the average salaried offer appears to be 140K? 140K, 40% for taxes, leaves with 84K, 3K a month for housing (assuming you don't want to shack up with some rando Craigslist'er), leaves 48K. Another 20K for food and booze, and you're left with 28K.

You also have to factor in the astronomical rent. How are you supposed to save that 100k when so much is going to rent? I know a non-tech dual-earner couple who managed to save a down payment like that in the Bay Area, but they were living rent-free in a house owned by one of their parents well into their 30s.

You can be like me and live cheaply. I lived in a coop for my 1st year in the bay rea (1.5k/month total). Then I rented in a 2 bed 2 bath with 3 ppl. Once I had a girlfriend rent became 50% off.

Basically I've never personally paid more than 2k/month in rent in the bay area.

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#378
post #207
post #16

Most of the bay area employees are divided into 3 categories from anecdotal experience: young rockstars that are willing to live in relative squalor for a chance to prove themselves, vested and moneyed elites (CEO's, presidents, VC funded overlords) who are so out of touch with the average employee its best they not show up to the office that frequently, and H1B visa recipients that endure the soul-crushing San Jose…

I feel like 'living in squalor' is an exaggeration, or at least a separate category from what a lot of young engineers are doing in the Bay Area. Maybe if they were living in SF, sure, they could be living in dinghy studios. I know plenty of new grads in the South Bay/Peninsula living in apartments or rented houses that would be considered decent or nice in the rest of the country with plenty of money to spare. Mostl…

As a recent grad myself, this is the only comment that rings true for me. Anecdotal for sure, but most people that I went to grad school with and stayed in the bay are doing fine, even at mid-size companies. You can find someplace to live (especially with a significant other) that enables a moderate amount of saving / investing with a little frugality; however, there's a lot of luck and privilege that plays into being a successful young engineer in the bay, and in no way do I want to downplay the seriousness of these issues for other groups.

Lots of people stay here despite the costs because of the positive externalities that come with living in the bay. There are many alternatives to a highway commute (bike in the city, Caltrain, work from home) that many new grads are able to take advantage of. There's easy access to nature, culture, and for a lot of people, an extended network of family and friends that probably wouldn't be so welcoming in other places that don't have the same strains on housing.

I expect that many will move away for opportunities elsewhere before ultimately returning, but that seems to be a desire for exploration rather than dissatisfaction with quality of life. Certainly, few of the people I know are itching to leave the city for even low-density suburban living, and that's a preference that just can't be squared with many of the commenters here that rave about living on their 3 acres of land for $200k in the middle of nowhere while working remotely.

There are a lot of problems in the bay (and even more in the city) that I hope we can address, but making it out to be unlivable for young engineers (again, a very privileged class) is ridiculous. Are there better places to raise kids? Yes. Are there cheaper places to live? Yes. Are there other urban areas that provide some of the same benefits? Yes. Do I want to live anywhere else? Not right now.

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same in Portland. A house down the street was purchased for 180k 2 years ago and recently sold for 520k. And that isn't some outlier. It seems all anyone wants to talk about is how quickly home prices have inflated.

It's funny that the Fed is still dreaming about having low inflation while the number one expense most people will have experiences rampant inflation.

Housing is not experiencing rampant inflation when you look at the nation as a whole. We have one currency so the Fed has to try to strike a balance that works for everyone.

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You kidding right? 100k down? 2K mortgage? These are insane numbers that very few people can afford even in the tech community.

A $2,000 mortgage is not insane. A lot of people in the US can in fact afford a $2k mortgage. The median full-time job in the US pays near $45,000. The median household income is near $60,000 today. There are 127 million full-time employees in the US. Or put another way, approximately 39% of all people in the labor force (~161 million) are earning at least $45,000 per year. If you're in the top 1/3 of all full-time e…

The problem isn't that a $1 million home is insane (or not). Or, even a $2000/month mortgage. Yes, a well compensated professional can afford those numbers.

The problem in the Bay, and increasingly in other popular areas, is there are few options for less. Especially in places like the south bay, where it isn't really urban - it's a giant suburb that lacks dense, affordable housing options.

An average employee shouldn't have to live hours away from their job. Or spend 50% of their income on housing.

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