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Venezuela’s Behind on Its Debt and Facing Two Huge Bond Payments

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Re: Venezuela’s Behind on Its Debt and Facing Two Huge Bond Payments

#41

Post by Natsu »

kyleblarson wrote: post #38

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

I think this actually misstates the problem in an important way, because many people believe that we can simply print more, ignoring the entire other side of the equation.

There has to be something to buy with that money or it's worthless paper and metal. There have to be people working to provide goods and services. If that's not the case for whatever reason--because of a lack of resources, because enough of society has broken down that people can't, won't or don't work, or whatever else--you see failures.

So it's not just a currency problem. It's a problem of whether things that are actually useful to people are being produced and money is just a way of measuring the exchanges. Pretty much any naive maximization of money results in issues, whether that involves ignoring externalities for profit, or broken incentives caused by distributing piles of money that cannot, on average, be exchanged for useful goods or services.

Re: Venezuela’s Behind on Its Debt and Facing Two Huge Bond Payments

#42

Post by JumpCrisscross »

ProAm wrote: post #39
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> one becomes immediately suspicious of the US intent in latin america These restrictions are forcing an inevitable outcome sooner. Venezuela's debt load is unsustainable for reasons entirely of Chavez and Maduro's doing (as well as the people who elected them in elections that were, until fairly recently, fair and free [1]). Suspicion is good. Using baseless suspicion to deflect attention from a well-based problem i…

> one becomes immediately suspicious of the US intent. I suggest your read or watch this and you'll be immediately less suspicious [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confessions_of_an_Economic_Hit...

I've read and enjoyed it. Knowing good people who work and have worked for Bechtel, et cetera, I can assure you that the riveting read it makes contains some truths and many exaggerations.

The laws the U.S. is deploying here are designed to prevent a despot from pilfering a population's wealth to pay cronies. Letting Maduro liquidate PDVSA to pay debts which should be defaulted on is precisely the intent of the law, an intent which aligns the United States with Venezuela.

Again, suspicion is healthy. But using the possibility of an international conspiracy to detract from a well-established national one (in Venezuela) is disingenuous.

Re: Venezuela’s Behind on Its Debt and Facing Two Huge Bond Payments

#43

Post by briholt »

baursak wrote: post #29
briholt wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They need to keep the capital flowing in order to fund the police/military that prop up the authoritarian regime.

It's difficult to figure out what's really going on there. I followed Abby Martin's reporting on the ground recently, and it's quite eye opening: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUYWrPiUeWY

I've only seen a few pieces by Martin, but everyone was a gross distortion of the situation covered. She's a propagandist pushing anti-Western narratives, not a journalist summarizing the facts. I suspect her coverage here may be influenced by her anti-Western feelings.

Re: Venezuela’s Behind on Its Debt and Facing Two Huge Bond Payments

#44

Post by abalone »

jfaucett wrote: post #28
nimbius wrote: post #12

On August 25, 2017, US President Donald Trump issued an executive order limiting the government of Venezuela's ability to access certain types of international financing. This would certainly curtail the governments ability to ease the pressure of bond payments. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/08/25/exec... when you cant sell assets, you cant repay a bond. PDVSA, the nationalized oil asset of the st…

regardless of what you think of Trump, this is the correct action. The maduro govt is not just full of issues, they are murdering and starving their own population and any funds are used to prop up the privileged few elite in the aristocracy. El mercosur is about to expulse venezuela so this is not just some yankee only EEUU foreign agression bs. If you support the Maduro government, you're against humanity at this p…

54% of the population supported the Maduro government in the election.[1] If you think Trump is taking the "correct action," you're against democracy at this point.

[1] https://www.greenleft.org.au/content/venezuela-election-resu...

Re: Venezuela’s Behind on Its Debt and Facing Two Huge Bond Payments

#46

Post by abalone »

aaron-lebo wrote: post #27
nimbius wrote: post #12

On August 25, 2017, US President Donald Trump issued an executive order limiting the government of Venezuela's ability to access certain types of international financing. This would certainly curtail the governments ability to ease the pressure of bond payments. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/08/25/exec... when you cant sell assets, you cant repay a bond. PDVSA, the nationalized oil asset of the st…

You probably mean well, but you are basically arguing against progress. The US might have ill intent, but even assuming ill intent, that intent is still better for the people of Venezuela than the current government which has left them starving and represses them.

The president of the U.S. undermining the results of a free and fair Latin American election is not "progress". That's par for course since at least 1904.[1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monroe_Doctrine

Re: Venezuela’s Behind on Its Debt and Facing Two Huge Bond Payments

#47

Post by aaron-lebo »

abalone wrote: post #44
jfaucett wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

regardless of what you think of Trump, this is the correct action. The maduro govt is not just full of issues, they are murdering and starving their own population and any funds are used to prop up the privileged few elite in the aristocracy. El mercosur is about to expulse venezuela so this is not just some yankee only EEUU foreign agression bs. If you support the Maduro government, you're against humanity at this p…

54% of the population supported the Maduro government in the election.[1] If you think Trump is taking the "correct action," you're against democracy at this point. [1] https://www.greenleft.org.au/content/venezuela-election-resu...

You're really citing results from an authoritarian regime known for scrubbing numbers and propaganda as evidence of popular support?

Re: Venezuela’s Behind on Its Debt and Facing Two Huge Bond Payments

#49

Post by aaron-lebo »

abalone wrote: post #46
aaron-lebo wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You probably mean well, but you are basically arguing against progress. The US might have ill intent, but even assuming ill intent, that intent is still better for the people of Venezuela than the current government which has left them starving and represses them.

The president of the U.S. undermining the results of a free and fair Latin American election is not "progress". That's par for course since at least 1904.[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monroe_Doctrine

Getting a non authoritarian regine in place would be progress in almost every way. The Monroe Doctrine precedes 1904. It's interesting that the Venezuelans have been in favor of it at times:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuelan_crisis_of_1895

Re: Venezuela’s Behind on Its Debt and Facing Two Huge Bond Payments

#50

Post by asf4232 »

nimbius wrote: post #12

On August 25, 2017, US President Donald Trump issued an executive order limiting the government of Venezuela's ability to access certain types of international financing. This would certainly curtail the governments ability to ease the pressure of bond payments. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/08/25/exec... when you cant sell assets, you cant repay a bond. PDVSA, the nationalized oil asset of the st…

The ability of external powers is a point I bring up when people go on about Venezuela being a failed socialist state.

With the stroke of their pens, other nations have limited what Venezuela can achieve on its own, and are forced to play the game as usual.

How anyone can say it a symbol of failed socialism states when you're being squeezed by international super powers into a corner with no real access, I have no idea.

Blind zealotry of their home land, IMO. I have zero faith or respect for humanity at this stage.

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