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Insects Are in Serious Trouble

theatlantic.com

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Re: Insects Are in Serious Trouble

#11

Post by ciconia »

AlexandrB wrote: post #7

As sad as this is, the reality is that nobody cares. Biologists have been beating the conservation drum (rightly so) for decades but the behaviour of the average consumer has hardly changed. Arguably, it's actually gotten worse with metrics like the use of plastic at an all-time high [1] (thanks, bottled water). Soon enough we will learn what the economic value of the free labor provided by insects and other animals…

> As sad as this is, the reality is that nobody cares.

More precisely, too few care, and only a fraction of them are really doing something about it.

I think in many ways the apparent environmental crisis we've been experiencing is a profound moral failure, on the part of individuals, governments and whole societies.

Re: Insects Are in Serious Trouble

#12

Post by hk__2 »

flyGuyOnTheSly wrote: post #8

Just some wishful thinking here... Is it possible that the local insect populations got wise to these malaise traps that the researchers were using in western germany? Apparently the way that a malaise trap works is that it waits for insects to fly into it's wall, hopes that they crawl up the wall, and then hopes that they crawl right into a bottle filled with ethanol. Now I do not know anything at all about insects…

> Am I crazy for thinking that might be the case?

I don’t know; but I wish they would be able to adapt so rapidly. Think how after thousands of years they still don’t understand they can’t fly through transparent glass.

Re: Insects Are in Serious Trouble

#13

Post by maelito »

hk__2 wrote: post #12
flyGuyOnTheSly wrote: post #8

Just some wishful thinking here... Is it possible that the local insect populations got wise to these malaise traps that the researchers were using in western germany? Apparently the way that a malaise trap works is that it waits for insects to fly into it's wall, hopes that they crawl up the wall, and then hopes that they crawl right into a bottle filled with ethanol. Now I do not know anything at all about insects…

> Am I crazy for thinking that might be the case? I don’t know; but I wish they would be able to adapt so rapidly. Think how after thousands of years they still don’t understand they can’t fly through transparent glass.

Probably not the same thing as most don't die when they hit the window

Re: Insects Are in Serious Trouble

#14

Post by projectramo »

hk__2 wrote: post #12
flyGuyOnTheSly wrote: post #8

Just some wishful thinking here... Is it possible that the local insect populations got wise to these malaise traps that the researchers were using in western germany? Apparently the way that a malaise trap works is that it waits for insects to fly into it's wall, hopes that they crawl up the wall, and then hopes that they crawl right into a bottle filled with ethanol. Now I do not know anything at all about insects…

> Am I crazy for thinking that might be the case? I don’t know; but I wish they would be able to adapt so rapidly. Think how after thousands of years they still don’t understand they can’t fly through transparent glass.

Transparent glass doesn't kill them so it doesn't exert any evolutionary pressure.

Re: Insects Are in Serious Trouble

#15

Post by l_camacho »

b0rsuk wrote: post #10

I think nothing will change as long as economic growth is understood as economic Good . Current economy can't work if there's no economic growth. Banks are among the biggest culprits. If banks lend money at a 5% interest rate, their customers must grow their businesses by 5%. A new, sustainable economy is needed. I think about it each time I see the Race for the Galaxy card. I've seen a radical example of this among…

That's circular economy at the purest level. More and more I think we need to degrow. It's not a question of starting the green economy. That should had happen years before now. We were informed by environmentalist about the limits of growth. Now we need to act fast on reducing unnecessary consumption and also unethical/unsustainable productivity.

Re: Insects Are in Serious Trouble

#16

Post by leephillips »

b0rsuk wrote: post #10

I think nothing will change as long as economic growth is understood as economic Good . Current economy can't work if there's no economic growth. Banks are among the biggest culprits. If banks lend money at a 5% interest rate, their customers must grow their businesses by 5%. A new, sustainable economy is needed. I think about it each time I see the Race for the Galaxy card. I've seen a radical example of this among…

I think the idea of "external wealth" is interesting. But how are banks culprits here? Are they forcing you to borrow money? Should they charge no interest so your business doesn't need to grow? Also, I don't follow. You need revenue to pay the interest (and principle), not constant growth.

Re: Insects Are in Serious Trouble

#17

Post by cialowicz »

hk__2 wrote: post #12
flyGuyOnTheSly wrote: post #8

Just some wishful thinking here... Is it possible that the local insect populations got wise to these malaise traps that the researchers were using in western germany? Apparently the way that a malaise trap works is that it waits for insects to fly into it's wall, hopes that they crawl up the wall, and then hopes that they crawl right into a bottle filled with ethanol. Now I do not know anything at all about insects…

> Am I crazy for thinking that might be the case? I don’t know; but I wish they would be able to adapt so rapidly. Think how after thousands of years they still don’t understand they can’t fly through transparent glass.

Flying into transparent glass under their own power isn't something that kills an insect, so there won't be any selection mechanism at work.

One of the other things to consider is the windshield/windscreen phenomenon[0]:

  > If you talk to people, they have a gut feeling. They remember how insects used to smash on your windscreen...
  > I used to have to wash my car all the time. It was always covered with insects.
I suppose there might be a selection mechanism at play there. Perhaps some insects have learned to avoid flying over comparably warmer swaths of pavement?

I still think the news here is pretty frightening.

[0] http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/05/where-have-all-insect...

Re: Insects Are in Serious Trouble

#18

Post by mikeash »

b0rsuk wrote: post #10

I think nothing will change as long as economic growth is understood as economic Good . Current economy can't work if there's no economic growth. Banks are among the biggest culprits. If banks lend money at a 5% interest rate, their customers must grow their businesses by 5%. A new, sustainable economy is needed. I think about it each time I see the Race for the Galaxy card. I've seen a radical example of this among…

I like growth. I want to be wealthier or be able to work less (which is really just an aspect of being wealthier). I want everybody else to be wealthier too. I want my children to be better off than I am.

The problem is growth without care for the consequences. Making some people wealthier at the expense of killing the planet is a bad plan.

But I think that it goes too far the other way to turn around and say that growth itself is the problem and should be eliminated. We should strive for sustainable growth, not stasis.

The story of the African tribe with external wealth is nice, but doesn't seem like a good goal. What happens when some change in the climate (which can happen even without human intervention) wipes out a plant they rely on, or a long drought shrinks their food supply by half for a couple of years? Heck, what happens when somebody gets cancer, or cataracts, or an abscessed tooth?

Re: Insects Are in Serious Trouble

#19

Post by b0rsuk »

mikeash wrote: post #18
b0rsuk wrote: post #10

I think nothing will change as long as economic growth is understood as economic Good . Current economy can't work if there's no economic growth. Banks are among the biggest culprits. If banks lend money at a 5% interest rate, their customers must grow their businesses by 5%. A new, sustainable economy is needed. I think about it each time I see the Race for the Galaxy card. I've seen a radical example of this among…

I like growth. I want to be wealthier or be able to work less (which is really just an aspect of being wealthier). I want everybody else to be wealthier too. I want my children to be better off than I am. The problem is growth without care for the consequences. Making some people wealthier at the expense of killing the planet is a bad plan. But I think that it goes too far the other way to turn around and say that gr…

Then build a bigger planet.

Re: Insects Are in Serious Trouble

#20

Post by dragontamer »

b0rsuk wrote: post #10

I think nothing will change as long as economic growth is understood as economic Good . Current economy can't work if there's no economic growth. Banks are among the biggest culprits. If banks lend money at a 5% interest rate, their customers must grow their businesses by 5%. A new, sustainable economy is needed. I think about it each time I see the Race for the Galaxy card. I've seen a radical example of this among…

> He argued the tribe (sorry I don't remember its name) can fully sustain itself by taking things from nature around it. All their wealth is external. They possess little, but whenever they have a need for something - food, medicine, water, paint, clothes, containers(...) they go to a forest, harvest a specific plant and get it

IMO, one of the biggest myths is the myth of the primitive but efficient savage. Its almost always a "obscure tribesman" of some kind, be it a native American, or maybe an African tribesman... but the myth is always the same.

Apply the "Mythical Efficient Tribesman" to real life, and things start to go awry. The mythical Tribesman poops in the river when he needs to use the bathroom for example... if a city of 1-million+ people poop in the river however, it creates contamination and disease... and probably isn't good for the general environment either.

IIRC, the most efficient places on earth, as far as lowest environmental impacts, are generally cities. Cities with central sanitation to clean up sewage BEFORE it enters rivers for example.

----------------

A sustainable economy is about closing the loop, keeping track of trash and doing something about it. Landfills and recycling centers are actually hugely efficient in the USA, especially some materials like Aluminum.

Waste Disposal centers have huge bins for a wide variety of items: textiles, metals, electronics, plastics, paper, oil, bio-wastes... each of which can be efficiently turned into new products.

For a lot of people, simply being aware of your local waste disposal center and their services would greatly improve your environmentalism. Don't throw away old Jeans, send them to the "textile" center to be recycled. Purchase "Plastic 1, 2, 3, 4, 5", but not Plastic 6 (which is harder to recycle and very few centers actually recycle it). Etc. etc.

Know what your city can offer and use their services. You don't need to run your own compost pile, just send your leaves / eggs / food waste to the landfill for it to be composted into mulch.

In my experience: rural areas of the USA have very few waste disposal services... and may even be running local "septic tanks" as their primary means of treating sewage. But even these more primitive means of sewage treatment are far superior to "primitive tribesmen" who resort to effectively dumping their sewage untreated in a river.

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