Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring • Hacker News Board

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#191

Post by dopeboy » Mon, Oct 23, 2017, 5:45 PM UTC

akhilcacharya wrote: post #114

whack wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In which of the above 3 categories would you put the Google/Facebook/Apple employees making 200-300k+ per year? I can't speak towards family living, but as a single person willing to live with roommates, you can find pretty nice places in the heart of Silicon Valley for ~$1000/month. Now add in compensation-packages well over 6 figures, brand-name companies for your resume, networking locally with other great enginee…

I'd consider living with non-family roommates to be in the "relative squalor" bucket if you're making $200k-300k a year.

That's pretty harsh. I don't make that kind of money but if I did, I'd still be open to living with roommates in a house. Some of us like living with other people and saving money while at it.

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#192

Post by jorblumesea » Mon, Oct 23, 2017, 5:46 PM UTC

tytytytytytytyt wrote: post #185

jorblumesea wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jesus, 2k / person a month is insane. This is what people are talking about. This is not acceptable or normal. I pay $900 / person a month for a large house in Seattle that's a 15 minute commute from downtown. Even with the bay's high salaries you're not doing very well. Throw in bills and other expenses and you're looking at ~40% of your monthly income, assuming a salary of 130k. That's ~50k per person, per year, in…

It's hardly insane for a house in a large metropolitan area! That's actually pretty reasonable, and lots of apartments in SF are 50% to 100% more in rent. If you look at current, or anything within maybe 5 years, house prices in Seattle I doubt you'll find much if anything within a 15 minute commute to downtown Seattle for a 900/month mortgage.

Other than NYC that's close to 50% more than what you can expect in any large American city. That is not reasonable in any sense of the word. 4k / month mortgage is around a $1 mil home value.

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#193

Post by ForHackernews » Mon, Oct 23, 2017, 5:46 PM UTC

refurb wrote: post #144

kfriede wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and I now have nothing to show for the $thousands I paid him You had a roof over your head while you paid him. That's not nothing. > my rent certainly went to pay his mortgage on the property Whereas the alternative is for him to not have the property at all because he can't afford it, and you're stuck finding somewhere else to live?

It's interesting how visceral the urge is to own a home when in fact, it's not always the best choice financially. People love to say "if I had only owned my home I wouldn't have thrown away so much in rent." This is typical in areas that have seen large increases in home prices. You rarely hear about the opposite which is "I'm $100K underwater on my house" because people don't talk about it when things go south. Ren…

A 30% hit in value only matters if you need to sell it. If it's an investment property, you could probably just hold onto it until the market recovers. As long as the value of rent payments > mortgage payment + maintenance costs, it's no skin off your back if the value drops on paper.

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#194

Post by irrational » Mon, Oct 23, 2017, 5:46 PM UTC

latencyloser wrote: post #169

davidw wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> where will they go Other tech hubs. Portland, Seattle - even little Bend has plenty of people from California who are attracted by the (for them) low housing prices. They, in turn, put pressure on housing prices for 'ordinary' people here. California's housing crisis has repercussions all up and down the west coast.

Seattle is quickly becoming 'bay area'-ish from what I can tell. Housing is certainly becoming difficult at incredible rates. Here in Bellevue, a colleague of mine bought a house for ~400k, it's now worth well over ~500k only a year later. Many houses in that area also sell for at least 700k+ assuming you can even get an offer in before a cash buyer grabs it. Don't even get me started on the traffic. I run as many of…

Same in Portland. A house down the street was purchased for 180k 2 years ago and recently sold for 520k. And that isn't some outlier. It seems all anyone wants to talk about is how quickly home prices have inflated.

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#195

Post by TuringNYC » Mon, Oct 23, 2017, 5:47 PM UTC

turc1656 wrote: post #147

cobookman wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm fairly early in my career at a company ( 80-10-10 mortgage on a 1mil home is only 100k down. And the monthly payments split by 2 people (aka a couple) is ~2k / person / month. That's 4k/month all in once you include the tax rebates.

You honestly think that paying 100k out of pocket in addition to a recurring 4k a month (48k a year!) just on housing is reasonable?

I lived through the 2000 tech implosion and in 1999, people though things like this were reasonable.

Amongst people who think this is reasonable are probably

- Dual earners hoping to bite the bullet before it gets crazier

- Those with - Lawyers, VCs, etc to whom this is nothing.

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#196

Post by vasilipupkin » Mon, Oct 23, 2017, 5:47 PM UTC

cat199 wrote: post #145

vasilipupkin wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should go where the opportunities are. Optimizing for things like cheap rent, etc. is silly. You should aim to make so much ( eventually ) that rent doesn't matter any more

> You should aim to make so much ( eventually ) that rent doesn't matter any more Unless this is an unrealistic aim, in which case you are throwing your future away on a false hope..

well, aren't we being a little melodramatic? if you get a decent job in the bay area and your rent is high, you aren't really "throwing your future away" even if your career doesn't take off.

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#197

Post by swendoog » Mon, Oct 23, 2017, 5:47 PM UTC

davidw wrote: post #59

robbrit wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A fourth category: people who have lived here for a long time, and were able to buy property back before it became unaffordable. These are typically the managers or senior employees. It makes me wonder that as the young rockstars and H1B recipients age, where will they go? They certainly can't afford to buy a house. I imagine as time goes on, companies in the Bay Area will be awash with young junior talent but will s…

> where will they go Other tech hubs. Portland, Seattle - even little Bend has plenty of people from California who are attracted by the (for them) low housing prices. They, in turn, put pressure on housing prices for 'ordinary' people here. California's housing crisis has repercussions all up and down the west coast.

It starts with an S and ends with an O, it's likely where tech talent will go!

Sacramento!

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#198

Post by enraged_camel » Mon, Oct 23, 2017, 5:48 PM UTC

pm90 wrote: post #76

msluyter wrote: post #9

Austin resident here. My wife and I have been talking to renovators and have heard several times that projects simply take longer these days because many workers now must live farther out from the city core than they used to. I wouldn't be surprised the same thing happens here -- to a lesser degree perhaps, as we have more geographical space to expand into -- with avg commute time being the primary constraint on grow…

Austin is a lot more progressive about accommodating new residents. Of course you do hear a lot of folks complaining about how the skyrocketing rents are destroying some long-time businesses, but like you said there is a LOT more land to expand and accomodate new residents. Also, the Domain development has somewhat eased the traffic situation by shifting a lot of new businesses slightly closer to the Northern Suburbs…

I live in Austin as well. I'm optimistic but not nearly as much as you. Traffic is strangling the city and slowing growth, especially of the downtown core. And the city is wasting time and money expanding highways (something proven to be useless in the long run) instead of investing in public transport like most successful cities have.

I'm looking into buying a house but anything that is affordable is out in the suburbs or neighboring cities. And I say that as someone who makes $100k.

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#199

Post by dboreham » Mon, Oct 23, 2017, 5:48 PM UTC

enraged_camel wrote: post #124

client4 wrote: post #14

Montana, a land of National parks, natural beauty, fast internet, and a low cost of living has a number of high tech jobs open. Full disclosure, I own an internet company here and want more tech savvy people in the area ;) Social Finanace (SoFi) | Helena, MT Oracle | Bozeman, MT OnXMaps | Missoula, MT Zaneray Group | Whitefish, MT Submittable | Missoula, MT Applied Materials | Kalispell, MT

Counterpoint: it is a very conservative state, and one of their elected representatives choke-slammed a Guardian journalist who was trying to ask him questions, and he still got elected.

Well...the guy in question is fairly widely disliked in the state (I've met him a few times -- seemed ok but he believes the earth is 4k years old which is .... just weird). He was elected I think because a) many people vote Republican regardless (see Trump) and b) mail in votes had already been counted at the time and this is a state with a high proportion of mail in ballots. I really wouldn't take his actions as any example of the vibe in the state. He isn't from Montana fwiw. If you want an example of bad political vibe from Montana you'd be more on the mark with Zinke.

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#200

Post by vasilipupkin » Mon, Oct 23, 2017, 5:48 PM UTC

AlexandrB wrote: post #187

vasilipupkin wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should go where the opportunities are. Optimizing for things like cheap rent, etc. is silly. You should aim to make so much ( eventually ) that rent doesn't matter any more

> Optimizing for things like cheap rent, etc. is silly. You should aim to make so much ( eventually ) that rent doesn't matter any more This flies in the face of basic economic theory. If everyone in the bay area "made so much that rent doesn't matter anymore" the rent would go up until it did matter. The reason it doesn't is that quantity demanded goes down as rent goes up precisely because people are price consciou…

what does this have to do with everyone in the bay area? this is hacker news and I am responding to a specific comment by a person that, in the context of the conversation, is in tech industry or is planning to be. "everyone in the bay area" includes your local barista.

downvoters: "If everyone in the bay area "made so much that rent doesn't matter anymore" the rent would go up until it did matter" is a red herring. we are not discussing everyone in the bay area. We are discussing specific types of people that are trying to maximize their career outcomes in the tech industry.