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Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

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Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It makes me wonder that as the young rockstars and H1B recipients age, where will they go? They certainly can't afford to buy a house. I imagine as time goes on, companies in the Bay Area will be awash with young junior talent but will struggle to attract more senior folks. They leave for more affordable cities or head back home to be close to family when they decide to have kids. EDIT: May I offer up Tampa as a ye…

Tampa is one of the most underrated metro areas on the planet. Keep it that way. :-)

I hear you :) Its just so hard to see people throwing away so much money every month in SFBA without telling them other options that could make their quality of life so much better.

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#132
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A fourth category: people who have lived here for a long time, and were able to buy property back before it became unaffordable. These are typically the managers or senior employees. It makes me wonder that as the young rockstars and H1B recipients age, where will they go? They certainly can't afford to buy a house. I imagine as time goes on, companies in the Bay Area will be awash with young junior talent but will s…

I'm fairly early in my career at a company ( 80-10-10 mortgage on a 1mil home is only 100k down. And the monthly payments split by 2 people (aka a couple) is ~2k / person / month. That's 4k/month all in once you include the tax rebates.

100k down is probably out of reach for the vast majority of people.

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#133
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you explain that bit more? How is that at the expense of everyone else, did they achieve their wealth illegally?

Expanding on the comment below, it's an unfortunate combination of many prevailing issues. 1. One of the things Prop 13 does is to cap the maximum rate at which a property tax grows per annum to 2%. However, due to housing demand, the property values grow at a much faster rate (7% is not unheard of). The property tax can change when there is a sale. 2. Bay area prices have skyrocketed. 3. The peninsula topography and…

The flip side to that is without prop 13, families like this would quickly find they can no longer afford to pay the taxes on their house and are forced to leave. Which is also not a great situation.

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#134
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They'll go to cities like Denver and Austin and promptly get to work turning them into the only thing they know, SV.

Live in Denver. This is a little too real. There's a very real irony to the people that move here that "hate the bay" then act, vote, and do everything in their power to make it exactly like SF.

> then act, vote, and do everything in their power to make it exactly like SF

I won't lie, during my time in Portland I def experienced some schadenfreude when California-native drivers complained about tickets for failing to yield to pedestrians.

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#135
post #16

Most of the bay area employees are divided into 3 categories from anecdotal experience: young rockstars that are willing to live in relative squalor for a chance to prove themselves, vested and moneyed elites (CEO's, presidents, VC funded overlords) who are so out of touch with the average employee its best they not show up to the office that frequently, and H1B visa recipients that endure the soul-crushing San Jose…

This. Though I'd probably add a 4th category, those being none of the preceding 3 groups. That 4th group would include me, and quite a number of others.

In my previous job hunt, I had numerous recruiters try to explain to me that the Bay Area was the only place to be. I helped them work the math to show the CoL differences between where I was and where they wanted me. This didn't phase them.

Then I discussed this in terms of required compensation deltas to make this meaningful, using the rubric of not slipping significantly backwards in quality of life measures (house size, commute, food prices, taxes, etc.). This got their attention.

A few times when I replied here on similar articles noting that the Bay Area was simply pricing itself out of competition for talent and companies, the responses varied between sympathy to ... well ... (paraphrasing) you are a fool to expect higher comp to live and work in this utopia.

Well, no.

There are many reasons why the Bay Area is in the state it is in. It isn't quite catastrophic ... yet ... but IMO it is moving there fast.

Burn rates for newcos are massive compared to other regions. General costs are high relative to other regions. Economic theory suggests that this will eventually fix itself, the invisible hand of the market and all.

For me, I took a position that enabled remote work, and can hop a plane to HQ when needed (1/month or so). This is far more cost effective for the company and I than it would be to move me.

Just my $0.02. There are those whom might leap to the defense of the region, but its worth asking if the critique is founded or not. I believe it is.

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#136
post #14

Montana, a land of National parks, natural beauty, fast internet, and a low cost of living has a number of high tech jobs open. Full disclosure, I own an internet company here and want more tech savvy people in the area ;) Social Finanace (SoFi) | Helena, MT Oracle | Bozeman, MT OnXMaps | Missoula, MT Zaneray Group | Whitefish, MT Submittable | Missoula, MT Applied Materials | Kalispell, MT

In 1999 I bailed out of the valley and moved to Livingston, MT. I had to build my own ISP to get connectivity to my house but otherwise it's been a success. Interesting to watch how the tech "scene" has changed over that time. I used to know all the developers in this half of the state personally!

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#137
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A fourth category: people who have lived here for a long time, and were able to buy property back before it became unaffordable. These are typically the managers or senior employees. It makes me wonder that as the young rockstars and H1B recipients age, where will they go? They certainly can't afford to buy a house. I imagine as time goes on, companies in the Bay Area will be awash with young junior talent but will s…

I'm fairly early in my career at a company ( 80-10-10 mortgage on a 1mil home is only 100k down. And the monthly payments split by 2 people (aka a couple) is ~2k / person / month. That's 4k/month all in once you include the tax rebates.

saving 50k while paying student loans off is often a very daunting task. I would imagine one would generally need to have a bay-area type salary to begin with to pull off such a thing in a timeframe less than a decade, which leads to a bit of a chicken and egg problem. Or find a way to make a decent engineering level salary while having little to no housing costs. This means having parents willing to support you who also live close enough to a job that pays well, and in your scenario having a significant other who is also in the same or similar enough situation; this is not extremely rare, but it's not the norm either.

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#138
post #14

Montana, a land of National parks, natural beauty, fast internet, and a low cost of living has a number of high tech jobs open. Full disclosure, I own an internet company here and want more tech savvy people in the area ;) Social Finanace (SoFi) | Helena, MT Oracle | Bozeman, MT OnXMaps | Missoula, MT Zaneray Group | Whitefish, MT Submittable | Missoula, MT Applied Materials | Kalispell, MT

Counterpoint: it is a very conservative state, and one of their elected representatives choke-slammed a Guardian journalist who was trying to ask him questions, and he still got elected.

https://meanwhileinmontana.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/18...

Counter-counterpoint: Visit Missoula when they are naked biking.

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#139
post #16

Most of the bay area employees are divided into 3 categories from anecdotal experience: young rockstars that are willing to live in relative squalor for a chance to prove themselves, vested and moneyed elites (CEO's, presidents, VC funded overlords) who are so out of touch with the average employee its best they not show up to the office that frequently, and H1B visa recipients that endure the soul-crushing San Jose…

What about the low-paid hourly employees who make food, mop floors, and stand behind cash registers?

let them eat organic gluten free vegan cake? hmm

Re: Bay Area hammered by loss of jobs: Lack of affordable housing strangles hiring

#140
post #21
post #16

Most of the bay area employees are divided into 3 categories from anecdotal experience: young rockstars that are willing to live in relative squalor for a chance to prove themselves, vested and moneyed elites (CEO's, presidents, VC funded overlords) who are so out of touch with the average employee its best they not show up to the office that frequently, and H1B visa recipients that endure the soul-crushing San Jose…

Is it worthwhile to work there for a few years as a 20-year old though? I'm thinking it's a unique experience even if monetarily it's a poor choice.

If you're after investors' money then probably yes, as they say, but for the engineer, there is nothing special.
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