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Chevy Bolt: the First Practical, Mass-Market Electric Vehicle

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Re: Chevy Bolt: the First Practical, Mass-Market Electric Vehicle

#261

Post by otterley »

jsjohnst wrote: post #254
otterley wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not convinced this is entirely true. The majority of people need a truck a few times a year at most. For them, rental is a practical option. The rest of the year, an ordinary sedan or hatchback will suit their needs just fine. If this were not so, people in other first-would countries would also buy trucks as their primary vehicles, and we know that's not the case. (It helps that fuel taxes elsewhere are more rea…

While there’s definitely some truth to your point, I also know the vast majority of folks who own a truck that I know use it to pull a trailer regularly (as in multiple times a month). Renting would be an unrealistic hassle for them.

You can pull trailers with cars, provided they have enough torque. When I was a kid, my dad pulled our pop-up trailer with a 1974 Pontiac Ventura (GM 5.7L V8 engine). Just last month I regularly saw relatively large trailers being pulled by relatively small cars when I was in the UK.

Re: Chevy Bolt: the First Practical, Mass-Market Electric Vehicle

#262

Post by WorldMaker »

agumonkey wrote: post #184
koiz wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its what I keep telling people, GM has been during PR on this car but the software is still far from complete.

another case of post shipping software debugging philosophy ?

It's easier to accuse GM of the opposite problem: Most of their software still has to be "properly" waterfalled and QAed because they don't update software on shipping vehicles. GM's software is often terrible because the software feature list was finished two or three years before the model comes to market. What bugs makes it past QA gets shipped and likely will never get fixed in the lifetime of that vehicle. As the software gets bigger and more important to vehicle operation, you can see how it may be increasingly tough for QA to keep up.

Re: Chevy Bolt: the First Practical, Mass-Market Electric Vehicle

#263

Post by WorldMaker »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #212
yessql wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla actively cools its batteries and chose a long lasting battery chemistry. The Leaf, does not cool the battery, and the early Leaf model had a really bad chemistry.

Not sure why you got downvoted for this. Nissan and some other manufacturers seem to be cutting costs by not doing the active cooling/heating that GM and Tesla are doing, and consumers are suffering for it. I was very disappointed to see the new Leaf is still not thermally managed. Air cooled only. Probably fine for California, but in places that have deep winters and hot summers, it's a bad idea.

GM has said since the Volt was in pre-production they can't imagine why someone wouldn't actively manage the heating/cooling of a battery in an EV, because GM absolutely has to deal with Michigan winters. It's a strange "benefit" to classic Detroit car culture that they live in and take for granted at least one of the temperature extremes.

Re: Chevy Bolt: the First Practical, Mass-Market Electric Vehicle

#264

Post by WorldMaker »

rdl wrote: post #18

I wish they'd sell a Cadillac version (or at least a decent trim level) -- the seats are horrible. I'd happily pay $5k more for $2k of better seats. (Aftermarket upgrades are a pain.)

The ELR, Cadillac's sort of coupe-sister to the Volt took about two years after the Gen 1 Volt to show up in the market. Maybe a similar timeline plays out for a Bolt sister in the Caillac line? Though with GM talking about going mostly electric by 2023, maybe it will be a shorter wait than that.

Re: Chevy Bolt: the First Practical, Mass-Market Electric Vehicle

#265

Post by alistairSH »

slackingoff2017 wrote: post #257
alistairSH wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but there is no computer turning mechanical engine braking on and off based on some set of non-trivial conditions.

Ehhhh that's not quite true either. Above a certain rpm the engine cuts fuel completely and engine braking is strong. In cars with electronic throttle control the computer might also open the throttle to maximize energy consumed compressing air. As you pass through that cutoff range the engine starts firing again, maybe 700 rpm above idle. Engine braking stops being effective when this happens. Also, newer cars don't…

#carbureted4life

Whatever the case, I've found engine braking to be fairly consistent in manual transmission cars at a given speed/gear. But, I've never thought I could rely on it to bring me to a stop in a parking lot. It blows my mind that an EV driver would think that.

Re: Chevy Bolt: the First Practical, Mass-Market Electric Vehicle

#266

Post by WorldMaker »

jseliger wrote: post #131
hwillis wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well right now most Teslas go to salvage by a third party and some go to Tesla recycling. I assume some number just go to normal scrapyards. It's profitable to recycle the batteries so it isn't really a problem, and isn't likely to be a problem, and there are existing paths to recycle vehicles at EOL. For instance 90% of lead-acid batteries are recycled[1]. Again though batteries are most useful simply as salvage, an…

This is a good answer, and I'll add that some projects are already active: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/17/business/gm-and-nissan-re... or https://thinkprogress.org/why-used-electric-car-batteries-co... .

My favorite anecdote I heard was that Nissan was blaming the slow development of their PowerWall-esque project for secondary battery usage on how demand for used EV car batteries currently far outstrips supply (because batteries are staying on the road longer than some early Nissan projections).

Re: Chevy Bolt: the First Practical, Mass-Market Electric Vehicle

#267

Post by WorldMaker »

lostboys67 wrote: post #203
bogomipz wrote: post #102

I am curious how does one go about disposing of an electronic vehicle like this when the time comes - whether from an accident or just EOL'd? Is that included in this price? Or does one need to factor that into the TCO of the vehicle? Given the batteries I'm guessing this requires special attention compared to a combustion engine car.

A related Q is how do first responders safely deal with crashes of electrical vehicles which may have a risk of electrocution at best and a full on metal fire.

Same way they deal with internal combustion engine crashes and gasoline fires and explosions: training and preparedness.

Re: Chevy Bolt: the First Practical, Mass-Market Electric Vehicle

#268

Post by jsjohnst »

otterley wrote: post #261
jsjohnst wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While there’s definitely some truth to your point, I also know the vast majority of folks who own a truck that I know use it to pull a trailer regularly (as in multiple times a month). Renting would be an unrealistic hassle for them.

You can pull trailers with cars, provided they have enough torque. When I was a kid, my dad pulled our pop-up trailer with a 1974 Pontiac Ventura (GM 5.7L V8 engine). Just last month I regularly saw relatively large trailers being pulled by relatively small cars when I was in the UK.

I didn’t say that it wasn’t possible, for some trailers. Fifth wheels by the nature of their design will not be pulled with a car. Even something as “simple” as my dad’s ski boat wasn’t possible to be pulled behind anything but a decently beefy truck (dry weight was ~6k lbs).

Where and when I grew up, setups like this[0] were very commonly seen on the road all the time, so maybe my experience is a little different than some of you.

[0] http://forums.wakeboarder.com/files/s_rig.jpg

Re: Chevy Bolt: the First Practical, Mass-Market Electric Vehicle

#269

Post by s0rce »

dangrossman wrote: post #62
s0rce wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen people charging bolts and plug in hybrids on my street with the wire run across the sidewalk (ie. from their home to the car parked on the street out front). Its a low-traffic residential area (East Bay) and I think this should be legal as it allows many people who have homes but no driveways to own and charge EVs. Maybe there should be a special rubber wire cover to protect the cord and so people don't tri…

> Maybe there should be a special rubber wire cover to protect the cord and so people don't trip. https://www.amazon.com/Wiremold-Ivory-Corduct-Floor-Protecto...

Yes, I'm aware of those, not sure if there is legislation to cover their use across residential sidewalks.

Re: Chevy Bolt: the First Practical, Mass-Market Electric Vehicle

#270

Post by s0rce »

lostboys67 wrote: post #226
lostboys67 wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm diy wiring just exposed to the elements and draped across the pavements that's just asking for some one to get an accidental electric shock

As a quick google finds that •Electrical hazards cause more than 300 deaths and 4,000 injuries each year among the U.S. workforce. •In the United States, 50,900 fires each year are attributed to electrical failure or malfunction, resulting in 490 deaths and 1,440 injuries Widespread introduction of electric car charging points will obviously increase those numbers

Pollution from internal combustion engines causes more deaths.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1352231013...

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