Chevy Bolt: the First Practical, Mass-Market Electric Vehicle • Hacker News Board

Re: Chevy Bolt: the First Practical, Mass-Market Electric Vehicle

#251

Post by the_gastropod » Mon, Oct 23, 2017, 2:57 PM UTC

tomohawk wrote: post #196

Other than virtue signalling, what's the point of this car? I can get a Honda Fit for half the price. The Fit will have twice the range on a 5 minute fillup, instead of needing an all night charge. This means I can be way more casual. This thing seems more like a pet that I have to assiduously care for each and every day just to keep it going. And what's the range of this EV after 5 years of use? In the middle of the…

95% of trips made in cars are under 30 miles [1]. Even fairly low-ranged electric cars are perfect here. When you need to go on a long trip, renting a gas-powered car is a much more economic, and environmentally-friendly, alternative.

[1] http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1071688_95-of-all-trips-...

Re: Chevy Bolt: the First Practical, Mass-Market Electric Vehicle

#252

Post by otterley » Mon, Oct 23, 2017, 3:03 PM UTC

EADGBE wrote: post #229

gilrain wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people value reduced impact on our ailing environment over immediate convenience.

How about both? I'm waiting for an electric truck. I'll have my cake and eat it, too. For some folks - a surprising amount in the United States - the practicality, livelihood, and sometimes necessity of a truck outshines its inefficiencies.

I'm not convinced this is entirely true. The majority of people need a truck a few times a year at most. For them, rental is a practical option. The rest of the year, an ordinary sedan or hatchback will suit their needs just fine. If this were not so, people in other first-would countries would also buy trucks as their primary vehicles, and we know that's not the case. (It helps that fuel taxes elsewhere are more realistic -- i.e. higher -- in terms of being able to pay for the infrastructure and other externalities.)

The reason people buy trucks in the U.S. is largely (a) cultural and (b) because they can afford them, both in terms of payments and fuel taxes.

Re: Chevy Bolt: the First Practical, Mass-Market Electric Vehicle

#253

Post by acallahan » Mon, Oct 23, 2017, 3:06 PM UTC

gilrain wrote: post #214

bluedino wrote: post #213

>> $43,905 Wow. For that much money, I'll take a Chevy pickup. Twice the interior room, a bed for storage, 4WD for the winters... They show the Bolt with a kayak on the roof, but with a truck I can take 2 kayaks (or pull a boat), still put 3 other people and a dog, a cooler, everyone's camping gear for the weekend, fishing poles, everything I'd actually need to go on kayaking trip for the weekend. Sure, I'll have to…

Some people value reduced impact on our ailing environment over immediate convenience.

To make that more concrete, there are environmental externalities that no one is paying on gas, but whose cost is real. The first recent source I found on google [1] pegs the externalities at $3.80 per gallon of gas, which would more than double the cost of gas (in the US) if factored in.

More directly, if you drive your vehicle 100k miles at 20 MPG, that's $20,000 in environmental harm you're creating and passing on to be someone else's problem. To me, that makes electric cars (and other alternatives) seem more attractive.

[1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/tomzeller/2015/03/05/study-your...

Re: Chevy Bolt: the First Practical, Mass-Market Electric Vehicle

#254

Post by jsjohnst » Mon, Oct 23, 2017, 3:21 PM UTC

otterley wrote: post #252

EADGBE wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about both? I'm waiting for an electric truck. I'll have my cake and eat it, too. For some folks - a surprising amount in the United States - the practicality, livelihood, and sometimes necessity of a truck outshines its inefficiencies.

I'm not convinced this is entirely true. The majority of people need a truck a few times a year at most. For them, rental is a practical option. The rest of the year, an ordinary sedan or hatchback will suit their needs just fine. If this were not so, people in other first-would countries would also buy trucks as their primary vehicles, and we know that's not the case. (It helps that fuel taxes elsewhere are more rea…

While there’s definitely some truth to your point, I also know the vast majority of folks who own a truck that I know use it to pull a trailer regularly (as in multiple times a month). Renting would be an unrealistic hassle for them.

Re: Chevy Bolt: the First Practical, Mass-Market Electric Vehicle

#255

Post by EADGBE » Mon, Oct 23, 2017, 3:29 PM UTC

otterley wrote: post #252

EADGBE wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about both? I'm waiting for an electric truck. I'll have my cake and eat it, too. For some folks - a surprising amount in the United States - the practicality, livelihood, and sometimes necessity of a truck outshines its inefficiencies.

I'm not convinced this is entirely true. The majority of people need a truck a few times a year at most. For them, rental is a practical option. The rest of the year, an ordinary sedan or hatchback will suit their needs just fine. If this were not so, people in other first-would countries would also buy trucks as their primary vehicles, and we know that's not the case. (It helps that fuel taxes elsewhere are more rea…

I'm a DIYer, perhaps my view is skewed. There's always something big and bulky in the truck bed weekly, it seems.

I'm not sure other first-world countries transportation infrastructure is designed to accommodate larger, bulkier trucks everywhere, as it is in the US.

Re: Chevy Bolt: the First Practical, Mass-Market Electric Vehicle

#256

Post by johngalt » Mon, Oct 23, 2017, 3:58 PM UTC

mtgx wrote: post #170

Can we please stop calling hybrid vehicles "electric cars"? This is also leading to ridiculous marketing tricks by carmakers where they only make the tiniest amount of changes to "technically" be able to call their cars an "electric car" while common sense-wise being as far away from an all-electric car as possible. This means minimal changes to their own cars while claiming they've "adopted the wave of the future."…

The bolt is an all electric car not a hybrid.

Re: Chevy Bolt: the First Practical, Mass-Market Electric Vehicle

#257

Post by slackingoff2017 » Mon, Oct 23, 2017, 4:30 PM UTC

alistairSH wrote: post #224

slackingoff2017 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uhhh, manual cars have worked like this forever. In first gear especially the braking when you let off the gas is enough to be jarring if you're not gentle

Yes, but there is no computer turning mechanical engine braking on and off based on some set of non-trivial conditions.

Ehhhh that's not quite true either.

Above a certain rpm the engine cuts fuel completely and engine braking is strong. In cars with electronic throttle control the computer might also open the throttle to maximize energy consumed compressing air.

As you pass through that cutoff range the engine starts firing again, maybe 700 rpm above idle. Engine braking stops being effective when this happens.

Also, newer cars don't do a full fuel cut when engine braking with a cold engine or if the catalyst is getting too cold to work. So sometimes engine braking isn't very strong.

Basically you can't rely on engine braking so when you're doing it your foot usually hovers on the brake pedal. This isn't any different than the hybrids

Re: Chevy Bolt: the First Practical, Mass-Market Electric Vehicle

#258

Post by stavrianos » Mon, Oct 23, 2017, 4:30 PM UTC

otterley wrote: post #252

EADGBE wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about both? I'm waiting for an electric truck. I'll have my cake and eat it, too. For some folks - a surprising amount in the United States - the practicality, livelihood, and sometimes necessity of a truck outshines its inefficiencies.

I'm not convinced this is entirely true. The majority of people need a truck a few times a year at most. For them, rental is a practical option. The rest of the year, an ordinary sedan or hatchback will suit their needs just fine. If this were not so, people in other first-would countries would also buy trucks as their primary vehicles, and we know that's not the case. (It helps that fuel taxes elsewhere are more rea…

> The majority of people need a truck a few times a year at most.

There's a big grey area around the word "need". The list of things that can be done with a truck, that can't be done with a strong-ish car/van and a trailer, plus elbow grease and planning, is almost certainly tiny. The availability of a truck, though, will change (and probably simplify) a LOT of that marginal problem-space, even if it isn't strictly needed.

Re: Chevy Bolt: the First Practical, Mass-Market Electric Vehicle

#259

Post by yessql » Mon, Oct 23, 2017, 4:39 PM UTC

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #212

yessql wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla actively cools its batteries and chose a long lasting battery chemistry. The Leaf, does not cool the battery, and the early Leaf model had a really bad chemistry.

Not sure why you got downvoted for this. Nissan and some other manufacturers seem to be cutting costs by not doing the active cooling/heating that GM and Tesla are doing, and consumers are suffering for it. I was very disappointed to see the new Leaf is still not thermally managed. Air cooled only. Probably fine for California, but in places that have deep winters and hot summers, it's a bad idea.

Yes, I would have seriously considered the new Leaf, since it is about $5k cheaper than the Model 3. It would effectively cost $18k in Colorado vs $23k for the Model 3.

It would be nice to have the Nissan service and manufacturing capability behind the product. But since it is still designed to degrade, I won't consider it.

Re: Chevy Bolt: the First Practical, Mass-Market Electric Vehicle

#260

Post by CalChris » Mon, Oct 23, 2017, 5:08 PM UTC

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #211

CalChris wrote: post #74

If you buy an EV, you should be happy with its range when you buy it. Like laptops and cellphones, that will degrade as all batteries do. But also like laptops and cellphones, when you replace that battery down the road, it is unlikely you'll get an upgrade. You'll get the same range. At least that was the case with my 2013 Leaf with its 85 mile range. I had it in mind that when it came for a new battery I'd get mayb…

GM is probably the best of the EV manufacturers for battery maintenance. Unlike Nissan, who just seems to be just giving the consumer the finger on this issue: GM's systems do active thermal management of the battery pack, and keep charge headroom to prevent the battery from fully charging or discharging. There's people driving around on 2011/2012 Gen1 Volts with no battery degradation and very high milage.

Both fingers since I can’t upgrade to the 30 kWh because ... because of very complicated reasons that you can’t understand but trust us they’re good reasons.