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Chevy Bolt: the First Practical, Mass-Market Electric Vehicle

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Re: Chevy Bolt: the First Practical, Mass-Market Electric Vehicle

#111
As a sidebar, I really wish that Blendle would exit Beta so that I could buy these extremely interesting articles as a one-off micropayment. I don't intend to get a subscription with every top news organization (NY Times, New Yorker, The Atlantic, WSJ, Economist etc), but I would be more than happy to pay $0.25-0.75 for an article like this.

I want to pay for their content, but getting locked into a subscription when I don't want to read the majority of the content in any one of these publications is foolhardy. And unlike streaming platforms like Spotify, Netflix, HBO etc these news platforms don't provide nearly the same return on investment. I listen to Spotify 15-20hrs per week, I watch Netflix for at least 6hrs / week. High quality journalism is very valuable, but certainly these publications are aware that they aren't in the same weight-class as Netflix and Spotify in terms of value to customers individually. As an aggregate, I would easily spend $10 / month consuming "high quality technology and research news and opinion" pieces.

Please, for the love of god, provide me with a sensical way to pay for your content.

Re: Chevy Bolt: the First Practical, Mass-Market Electric Vehicle

#112
post #65
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

your case in point is that someone who wanted to park decided not to use his brakes? is removing your foot from the accelerator instead of using the brake a standard learned behavior amongst bolt/volt owners?

Yes. Same with Tesla's default settings, and with any Toyota hybrid.

I drive a Toyota hybrid, and have never even remotely considered relying on regenerative braking to even slow my vehicle. If I want to slow down, I press the brake. If there's any slowing because of regenerative braking, I have never noticed it.

Re: Chevy Bolt: the First Practical, Mass-Market Electric Vehicle

#113

I am curious how does one go about disposing of an electronic vehicle like this when the time comes - whether from an accident or just EOL'd? Is that included in this price? Or does one need to factor that into the TCO of the vehicle? Given the batteries I'm guessing this requires special attention compared to a combustion engine car.

Well right now most Teslas go to salvage by a third party and some go to Tesla recycling. I assume some number just go to normal scrapyards.

It's profitable to recycle the batteries so it isn't really a problem, and isn't likely to be a problem, and there are existing paths to recycle vehicles at EOL. For instance 90% of lead-acid batteries are recycled[1]. Again though batteries are most useful simply as salvage, and it'll probably be that way for a couple decades at least. The battery in a Tesla is so sturdily built (very thick aluminum sidewalls and bottom plate, then filled with potting epoxy) that they pretty easily survive crashes that total the car. Even "dead" batteries still have significant life and storage left, and are still more efficient, cost-effective and energy-dense than ni-cad or lead acid. Right now they're mostly just used by hobbyists but I will not be surprised to see companies popping up in a few years that buy old Teslas for $5,000-$10,000 and sell stationary storage at close to $125-150/kWh. They scrap out the rest of the car, install the battery modules into racks and sell them. At those prices it will take quite a while for this to be a viable business, but once it is it'll even compete with the used car market.

Worst case Tesla batteries can be safely sent to a landfill (they contain a small amount of cobalt and nickel, but no other toxic elements), they should just be drained first. Recycling is done with a hammer mill normally, but car shredders are built to chew through two foot long cast iron blocks[2]. They would have zero trouble with a Tesla, and probably wouldn't mind if it was charged.

[1] https://www.tesla.com/blog/teslas-closed-loop-battery-recycl...

[2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQNttxaG1qA

Re: Chevy Bolt: the First Practical, Mass-Market Electric Vehicle

#115
post #5
post #3

At $35k+ with 240 miles of range, it's starting to get close but realistically not quite there yet for "mass market" adoption. I hope I'm wrong but this will likely be a minor seller. Also re: the $7500 federal tax rebate, most people can't take full advantage because they don't owe that much and it doesn't carry over past the first year. Still a good program but not a magic wand solution.

> $7500 federal tax rebate, most people can't take full advantage because they don't owe that much I am pretty sure most of those who can afford to purchase a 35k+ car are making at least 40k / year and owe that much in federal taxes, unless I am not calculating something right

There is no way you owe $7500 in federal taxes on a $40k/year salary.

In the worst case (single or married filing separately; in this range the numbers look the same), the standard deduction is $6350 and the single personal exemption is $4050 in 2017. So your taxable income is $29,600 assuming you aren't putting any pre-tax money into retirement savings.

The 10% tax bracket for those filing statuses goes to $9325 in 2017. The 15% bracket goes to $37,950. Tax on $29,600 ends up being $3974.

To get to $7500 in tax you have to have about $47k of taxable income, and hence about $57k of gross income, for single or married-filing-separately filers.

For married filing jointly filers, you have to have about $56k of taxable income, standard deduction is $12,700, two personal exemtions is $8100, so you need at least $76,800 in gross income to owe this much.

Re: Chevy Bolt: the First Practical, Mass-Market Electric Vehicle

#116
post #22
post #3

At $35k+ with 240 miles of range, it's starting to get close but realistically not quite there yet for "mass market" adoption. I hope I'm wrong but this will likely be a minor seller. Also re: the $7500 federal tax rebate, most people can't take full advantage because they don't owe that much and it doesn't carry over past the first year. Still a good program but not a magic wand solution.

I love the idea of Electric cars and even own Tesla stock, but I think they're still a ways off from me seriously considering buying one. Why? I drive a large Hybrid sedan. I get a bit above 600 miles on a tank of gas without thinking about it. That's a trip from NYC to Toronto with about 100 miles of driving around range left before having to think about finding a gas station...or for our European friends, Paris to…

I largely agree with you, I think until you can see a electric with a 400 mile range with a 45 min recharge to get another 350 miles out of it, the concept of the electric car as the car for everyone doesn't pass the smell test.

Re: Chevy Bolt: the First Practical, Mass-Market Electric Vehicle

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a credit yes, but it's not a refundable credit. Which means you need to owe at least that amount of tax. So for 2016 that means a single person has to earn at least $46,900 to get the full benefit (assuming no other non-refundable credits). The median US personal income for 2016 was about $31,100, so I think it's fair to say the majority of Americans can not take full advantage, although I agree with your last s…

That number is deceptive: a married joint-filing income would be around $60k, so they would qualify if they only bought one of these.

For married-filing-jointly you need a gross income of at least $76,800 in 2017 to owe $7500 in federal taxes.

Re: Chevy Bolt: the First Practical, Mass-Market Electric Vehicle

#118
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sucks. Our GM dealer installed some counterfeit electrical parts (I bought it new!) and then it developed electrical issues — if you left it off for 8 hours it would sometimes drain the battery and fail to start. At that point, other GM dealers refused to look at it without taking a large up-front deposit. Corporate didn’t actually use the words “pound sand”. It would have saved me time if they had. Eventually,…

1,000 miles, you're probably covered by the lemon law on that if you just want to return it. I can't say at 1,000 miles I'd not be fuming about a large up-front deposit being asked of me. Amazing. Well, I wasn't going to hand GM any money again anyway, but my slight admiration I had of their Bolt is now gone, so thank you for that. GM is pulling their usual cheap Android vendor that wants Apple prices method I suppos…

Yes, I'm sorry you got screwed,, but every manufacturer has a story just like this one - I'm not really a 'GM Guy' but I don't think this is a fair brush to paint them with.

Re: Chevy Bolt: the First Practical, Mass-Market Electric Vehicle

#119
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't even have to itemize (it isn't a deduction), so I think most people would be able to take full advantage of it. I would bet anyone who is in the market for a $35k+ car (or even 28.5k+) is going to be at a point where they can take full advantage of the rebate.

To take full advantage of the tax credit, you'd have to owe $7500 income tax, which would mean at least 57K if single, 67K for married filing jointly. More if high itemized deductions, or if dependents. Assuming I read the tax tables [0] and form 1040[1] instructions correctly and didn't make a dumb arithmetic error. [0] https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040tt.pdf [1] https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1040.pdf

Your married number is off; I think you forgot that in that case the personal exemption and standard deduction also double...

Re: Chevy Bolt: the First Practical, Mass-Market Electric Vehicle

#120
post #20

We just managed to sell another flagship GM vehicle, and the software was so bad, it was nearly a deal-breaker. (Most years of this model had software bugs that were so bad, they could literally kill you — for example, the exhaust system could overheat, and burn the car down). Also, basic electro-mechanical things, like seat belts and the FM radio started to die after 3-4 years. This is with light use in CA. Even whe…

I don't think these issues are unique to GM sadly.
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