When such discoveries are made who "owns" that real estate?
Whomever can occupy it. Outer Space Treaty prohibits national claims but not use for peaceful purposes. So if you sit on it, you own it.
If you break it, you own it
A newly discovered moon tunnel
21–30 of 188 posts
Re: A newly discovered moon tunnel
#22I wonder how stable such tubes would be? No water erosion, no earthquakes, even though they must have formed at a time that was more geologically active. They could be on the edge of collapse if say, a large vehicle drove in them. Am I wrong? Just a first thought. Other than that, they could probably serve as a goal for human spaceflight, an intermediate step between walking on the moon and colonizing mars.
The article mentions the use of inflatable housing inside. Seems like a wise move given we have so little experience with their stability.
If they've survived this long, then presumably they are very unlikely to collapse on their own. That is, settlers would only need to worry about collapse cause by their own movements.
The odds of them being 'on the verge of collapse' are relatively low in my thinking. Unless there is some process that takes them to the edge and then stops that we don't understand. Otherwise, they are likely to have either already collapsed or be somewhat stable.
Re: A newly discovered moon tunnel
#23> And many scientists have long dreamed of building bases inside natural moon caves, where lunar explorers might sleep safely in inflatable homes, protected from the storms above. What "storms" are the authors talking about here?
Solar storms.
Re: A newly discovered moon tunnel
#24Re: A newly discovered moon tunnel
#25I wonder how stable such tubes would be? No water erosion, no earthquakes, even though they must have formed at a time that was more geologically active. They could be on the edge of collapse if say, a large vehicle drove in them. Am I wrong? Just a first thought. Other than that, they could probably serve as a goal for human spaceflight, an intermediate step between walking on the moon and colonizing mars.
> no earthquakes No but how about moon-quakes? Ok, not geologically active you say. But moon's been bombarded by asteroids it's surface is full of craters. Creating a crater wouldn't that be an equivalent of a moon-quake?
You are absolutely correct.
Re: A newly discovered moon tunnel
#26For a more technical description, the paper is here: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/2017GL074998/full . "Detection of intact lava tubes at Marius Hills on the Moon by SELENE (Kaguya) Lunar Radar Sounder" Intact lunar lava tubes offer a pristine environment to conduct scientific examination of the Moon's composition and potentially serve as secure shelters for humans and instruments. We investigated the SE…
If the moon had ancient volcanic activity and thus, why is it, after observable impact from various bodies - shown in the craters all over the surface, and the sumizing of the fact that water was deposited to earth from extra-orbital impacts... does the moon have zero water or atmosphere? Where did water originate? (I didn't know how to format that question any better, so please forgive the fumbly format)
The moon’s gravity isn’t strong enough to hold water vapor or any other atmospheric gas. It would either get siphoned off by the earth or just fly off into the solar system.
The same is true of earth and helium.
Re: A newly discovered moon tunnel
#27When such discoveries are made who "owns" that real estate?
Are there any figures on the minimum $/gram of minerals that would justify a mining mission (presumably unmanned)? Just can't imagine that gold, platinum or any stable metal would be worth it. Maybe high grade diamonds that don't need to be extracted from other rock. The surveys would have likely identified the presence of such a high density substance and we haven't seen any mention of it.
I know you probably meant in terms rights to the "best" cave on the moon, but I'm just wondering what happens if the cave turns out to filled with frozen water, for example, that would be worth its weight in antimatter (not quite) on the moon.
Re: A newly discovered moon tunnel
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
If the moon had ancient volcanic activity and thus, why is it, after observable impact from various bodies - shown in the craters all over the surface, and the sumizing of the fact that water was deposited to earth from extra-orbital impacts... does the moon have zero water or atmosphere? Where did water originate? (I didn't know how to format that question any better, so please forgive the fumbly format)
The moon’s gravity isn’t strong enough to hold water vapor or any other atmospheric gas. It would either get siphoned off by the earth or just fly off into the solar system. The same is true of earth and helium.
Ok, and I like the comment about helium...
But where did water originate?
Re: A newly discovered moon tunnel
#29For a more technical description, the paper is here: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/2017GL074998/full . "Detection of intact lava tubes at Marius Hills on the Moon by SELENE (Kaguya) Lunar Radar Sounder" Intact lunar lava tubes offer a pristine environment to conduct scientific examination of the Moon's composition and potentially serve as secure shelters for humans and instruments. We investigated the SE…
If the moon had ancient volcanic activity and thus, why is it, after observable impact from various bodies - shown in the craters all over the surface, and the sumizing of the fact that water was deposited to earth from extra-orbital impacts... does the moon have zero water or atmosphere? Where did water originate? (I didn't know how to format that question any better, so please forgive the fumbly format)
The same place that water came from on Earth... comet impacts and residual moisture from the impact that split the Earth-Moon system. Really the same place all planetary water and gas has come from.
There's not much left because it mostly boils off due to low pressure, but in dark crevasses it's likely to stay cold enough to remain condensed. It's been measured spectroscopically.
Re: A newly discovered moon tunnel
#30TLDR: Space nerds theorized moon caves since the 80s. Moon caves created by young moon lava flows billions of years ago found in early 2000s. Japanese space agency finished mapping a tunnel last week and found it's 50km long and 500m wide with a flat bottom perfect for building space buildings in. This is news that's breaking to a revitalized moon rocket industry with all agencies and players building their own big m…
So, uh, who owns the moon, and that tunnel in particular? Is it first come first serve?