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Tech workers worry about age discrimination at age 40: Study

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Re: Tech workers worry about age discrimination at age 40: Study

#21
post #10

Maybe I'm being overly optimistic, but I think a lot of the discrimination is specifically anti-Boomer or anti-people-who-didn't-grow-up-with-Internet, not specific to age. If true, then 40 will be the 30 of 10 years ago.

Which would be funny since the people who didn't grow up with the Internet are the ones who invented it.

Re: Tech workers worry about age discrimination at age 40: Study

#22
post #3

> "...Facebook’s Mark Zuckerberg reportedly said that young people are more intelligent while speaking to a group of entrepreneurs " I would be fascinated to hear if his opinion changes once he is 40+ ...

They are, aren't they? Doesn't intelligence peak and then drop with age?

However, I'm sure it's more than compensated for by experience.

Re: Tech workers worry about age discrimination at age 40: Study

#24
Something for students to think about, in most other careers you study for, experience is valued and you usually end up being respected and highly paid, think management, doctors, civil engineers etc.

In tech it works the other way and you will be insignificant by 40.

Re: Tech workers worry about age discrimination at age 40: Study

#25

I don't know how it would make sense for business, unless they're trying to replace you with somebody less experienced because it's cheaper. In that case, it doesn't sound like the kind of place I would want to work for anyway.

It doesn't make sense, but often people and businesses are concerned about it being awkward for someone to report to a manager younger than them. Rather than educate and reassure they prefer to avoid this altogether by not hiring older people. For many, there is also a perception that for someone to not have climbed the corporate ladder by the time they reach their 40s is a signal of failure. With younger workers thi…

On the management side (non-tech) I initially felt awkward managing people older than me too. After some time I figured out that it is not that hard to have a relationship where their experience and knowledge is a good part of it. Their expertise is valued and I often ask for input when making decisions. I learn a lot. But also, they don't mind getting instructions, feedback, and training from somebody 20 years younger. We all get how the roles fit together, and my job is both to make the final call on stuff, and serve the people I manage so they have what they need and know they are doing a good job. I used to feel bad saying "good job" to somebody 20 years older than me (like who am I to say it?). Again, though, I figured out how to give more specific feedback and thank people for how hard they work and the impact it makes.

This all took a while to get right because of my own hangups. I could see some people preferring to manage younger employees because the authority relationship is more "natural" but that's surface level bs at the end of the day I think.

Re: Tech workers worry about age discrimination at age 40: Study

#27
post #8

There is substantial scientific evidence showing age-related cognitive decline begins relatively early in adulthood. The science is not controversial. http://examinedexistence.com//wp-content/uploads/2013/12/cry... This is a simplified view but communicates the idea. Some might say crystallized intelligence is under-valued in tech. That might be true. But then we should discuss that, not through the lens of social ju…

"Crystallized intelligence"?

Patience and attention to detail is what make a good programmer.

Re: Tech workers worry about age discrimination at age 40: Study

#28
post #8

There is substantial scientific evidence showing age-related cognitive decline begins relatively early in adulthood. The science is not controversial. http://examinedexistence.com//wp-content/uploads/2013/12/cry... This is a simplified view but communicates the idea. Some might say crystallized intelligence is under-valued in tech. That might be true. But then we should discuss that, not through the lens of social ju…

On behalf of all old people: Fuck that, and fuck the idea that cognitive performance alone should determine whether someone in our industry can eat. Because as much as we love to tout that every programmer is living with a house and a mortgage and a happy family, I happen to know for a fact that some are struggling to eat. Eh. Not exactly an objective viewpoint, I know. But to maybe drain away some of the energy I ju…

> I've known some amazingly productive old people. I learned from one of the best in the gamedev industry. He was my mentor, and basically a mini carmack. When I hear statements like this, I cannot fathom how people believe this myth that old people are inherently less able to kick your ass at programming.

I'm increasingly old (and hope to live to be really old) but we should try to keep our personal self interests out of the conversation. We need a strong social net that works for everyone, not equal opportunity at work for old folks (or insert demographics here).

I'm not advocating we remove existing laws. I just want scientific findings to be free of chilling effects.

Personally, I'd expect older people to do better than younger people. I fear that we can't fix the human brain rotting(?) away if we deny it is happening.

Re: Tech workers worry about age discrimination at age 40: Study

#30
post #8

There is substantial scientific evidence showing age-related cognitive decline begins relatively early in adulthood. The science is not controversial. http://examinedexistence.com//wp-content/uploads/2013/12/cry... This is a simplified view but communicates the idea. Some might say crystallized intelligence is under-valued in tech. That might be true. But then we should discuss that, not through the lens of social ju…

This argument is kind of pointless. Hiring for almost all tech jobs is based neither on some kind of "crystallized intelligence" nor on a hypothetical cognitive potential. Rather, jobs are usually matched with people who have the right skills. When a candidate with the right skills for a job gets rejected it's reasonable to ask whether age discrimination was a factor.

One counter argument that I would be willing to consider is that sometimes older workers who have neglected to update their skills are explaining their rejection as ageism when in fact they simply can't demonstrate that they have the relevant skills and expect to be hired based on their past (and by now, not so relevant) experience.

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