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A Test of Police Body Cameras Defies Expectations

nytimes.com

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Re: A Test of Police Body Cameras Defies Expectations

#281

Post by empath75 »

katastic wrote: post #159
will_brown wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is what happened... The next morning I get a call from the detective in the county to the South confirming he obtained video from the gas station where this all originated (the defendant approaching me while I’m pumping gas). Next I get a notification from Apple my iPad has been found, which I placed in lost/stolen mode. I call the detective who doesn’t answer his phone and then the police station in the county…

Sounds like you should move if your PD department is that terrible. And I'm being serious. If it's that big of a problem for you, and you're getting robbed at gunpoint, GET THE CRAP OUT OF THERE.

Every police department is that terrible.

Re: A Test of Police Body Cameras Defies Expectations

#282

Post by dade_ »

busted wrote: post #208

This article is kind of absurd in its assumption, I think it's irresponsible. By saying that you thought police would modify their behavior in response to being filmed, and especially (but not only) by citing a bunch of studies where CRIMINALS changed their behavior in response to being filmed, you are implying that the officers would change their behavior because THEY KNOW THEIR BEHAVIOR IS WRONG and they were doing…

I think the bias of this article against the cameras is obvious. I never thought the purpose of body cams were to improve police behaviour by some psychological effect (though a great benefit if it does), but to provide a record of what actually happened. They are also about protecting officers when they use force that is justified, or other situations where the need to defend their actions.

Re: A Test of Police Body Cameras Defies Expectations

#283

Post by wisty »

> For seven months, just over a thousand Washington, D.C., police officers were randomly assigned cameras — and another thousand were not. Researchers tracked use-of-force incidents, civilian complaints, charging decisions and other outcomes to see if the cameras changed behavior. But on every metric, the effects were too small to be statistically significant. Officers with cameras used force and faced civilian complaints at about the same rates as officers without cameras.

...

> Another possibility is that officers without cameras were acting like officers with cameras, simply because they knew other officers had the devices.

Or it also causes organisational changes. You can imagine the kind of things high-ranking officers will be telling their reports if they know things are going to be recorded.

Is the problem a few bad apples? Or is the problem training and discipline? If it's the later, then cameras can probably do a lot more, by scaring the Inspectors into doing their jobs properly.

Re: A Test of Police Body Cameras Defies Expectations

#284

Post by hobs »

bobbinsbob wrote: post #266
steamer25 wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We just need to establish a legal precept that if the body cam footage isn't there to corroborate the cops' story, we assume the worst and they get held accountable for anything a plaintiff is able to plausibly allege. Under that scenario, most cops would become the biggest advocates for e.g., redundancies, backups and transparency.

I know this won't be a popular comment but it never surprises me that this attitude that police should be guilty until proven innocent arrises. It seems to be the default setting. Just like the way everyone hates the police until they need them. Everything is at some point the fault of the police. It seems like everyone wants the police to do only what they want them to and to be punished if the police do something d…

We dont hate the police, but have no method to keep them accountable and awful behavior has been proven endemic in police forces around the country.

Why is it hateful to the police to actually ask for their interactions? As the modern authoritarian state asks its citizens, what do you have to hide?

Re: A Test of Police Body Cameras Defies Expectations

#285

Post by jasonkostempski »

tw04 wrote: post #233
apsec112 wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems to abolish the right to be "innocent until proven guilty". It's always possible to allege a crime that no one can prove didn't happen ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot ), so without a presumption of innocence, the system essentially puts the accused at the mercy of the accuser.

Given there aren't a lot of citizens randomly stopping officers to accuse them of crimes... I don't see a problem. The ISSUE right now is exactly what you've described - officers accusing citizens of crimes they didn't commit without proof beyond "their word". As someone who has been falsely accused by an officer (fortunately a minor traffic violation that I was able to make go away by paying a small fine), I've lost…

Ive heard there are a lot of suspects accusing officers but body cams reduce the average amount of those accusations.

Re: A Test of Police Body Cameras Defies Expectations

#286

Post by bobbinsbob »

hobs wrote: post #284
bobbinsbob wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know this won't be a popular comment but it never surprises me that this attitude that police should be guilty until proven innocent arrises. It seems to be the default setting. Just like the way everyone hates the police until they need them. Everything is at some point the fault of the police. It seems like everyone wants the police to do only what they want them to and to be punished if the police do something d…

We dont hate the police, but have no method to keep them accountable and awful behavior has been proven endemic in police forces around the country. Why is it hateful to the police to actually ask for their interactions? As the modern authoritarian state asks its citizens, what do you have to hide?

Well like I said I'm not from the US and have no answers to a system that seems completely and obviously open to abuse. I'm always puzzled why it's the way it is in the US, the whole justice system seems like a farce especially the way the courts work.

I'm all from transparency, not only does it keep the cops right but it also means cops are safe from fabricated complaints they are subject to. I just find some of the ideas here about how to do this ridiculous from a reality perspective. And to suggest that the police should be presumed guilty it actually worse than ridiculous.

Re: A Test of Police Body Cameras Defies Expectations

#288

Post by Larrikin »

bobbinsbob wrote: post #286
hobs wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We dont hate the police, but have no method to keep them accountable and awful behavior has been proven endemic in police forces around the country. Why is it hateful to the police to actually ask for their interactions? As the modern authoritarian state asks its citizens, what do you have to hide?

Well like I said I'm not from the US and have no answers to a system that seems completely and obviously open to abuse. I'm always puzzled why it's the way it is in the US, the whole justice system seems like a farce especially the way the courts work. I'm all from transparency, not only does it keep the cops right but it also means cops are safe from fabricated complaints they are subject to. I just find some of the…

Which country?

Re: A Test of Police Body Cameras Defies Expectations

#290

Post by ajnin »

CJefferson wrote: post #268
RHSeeger wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear about people recording the police with their phones now and again, and it always makes me think of the balance between 1. If I have my phone on and recording, the police can seize it (ie, grab it from me). At best, I'd be able to turn it off, but it's been shown multiple times that they can force me to provide my fingerprint to unlock it. 2. If I turn my phone off (so they need my pin, which they can't force f…

I would love an app which started recording, while making best effort to get the video off my phone and into the cloud ASAP, perhaps sending only sound and a low quality image if bandwidth is low.

The Owncloud Android app (https://f-droid.org/packages/com.owncloud.android/) has options to automatically upload pictures and videos as they are taken. It's working well for pictures, for videos it tends to fail if they are too big but I guess that with suitably low quality settings that would be acceptable.
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