Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A Test of Police Body Cameras Defies Expectations

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 353 posts

Re: A Test of Police Body Cameras Defies Expectations

#151

Post by Danihan »

will_brown wrote: post #145
frogpelt wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How was the case handled? Did they find the gunman? Was he charged? I ask because, honestly, I don't think I care what they police say when they first walk up as long as they solve the crime, catch the perpetrator. The problem we have nowadays is that we get to see "how the (justice system) sausage is made" a lot more than we used to. And it's disturbing. But those guys out there with uniforms on are the ones trying…

Here is what happened... The next morning I get a call from the detective in the county to the South confirming he obtained video from the gas station where this all originated (the defendant approaching me while I’m pumping gas). Next I get a notification from Apple my iPad has been found, which I placed in lost/stolen mode. I call the detective who doesn’t answer his phone and then the police station in the county…

Link doesn't work, great story though. Hope the guy gets 10 years plus. We should have very little tolerance, as a society, for these sorts of violent crimes.

Re: A Test of Police Body Cameras Defies Expectations

#152

Post by Danihan »

ImSkeptical wrote: post #102
will_brown wrote: post #60

I was recently the victim of an armed kidnapping, escaping only by jumping out of my own car from the driver seat while in gear with the gunman in the passenger seat. By the time the police arrived, my attacker escaped in my car and the first words out of the sergeants mouth was “cut the crap, quit jerking us around, what really happened?” Sure enough I was in a jurisdiction that only two months prior was equipped wi…

Why does what the cop said matter? It sounds like a pretty wild story, so I'm not surprised someone might doubt it on first hearing about it. Did they beat you up, refuse to help you, or something like that?

Exactly, being rude and blunt right away is probably about the most efficient thing they can do. I bet 70% of the time people change their stories when confronted with that line.

Re: A Test of Police Body Cameras Defies Expectations

#153

Post by kelnos »

eric_h wrote: post #70
s73ver_ wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But we're talking about incidents that are public. When Eric Garner was choked to death by police, I don't recall hearing a lot of cops call for those detectives to be fired. Hell, when the Mayor of NYC said something about it, at the next event, cops turned their backs on him. These are not "decent people".

> Hell, when the Mayor of NYC said something about it, at the next event, cops turned their backs on him. > These are not "decent people". I really don't think it's that clear cut. The cops who turned their backs aren't all, necessarily, bad people. The insularity of police culture generates significant peer pressure for cops to cover each other's backs and to protect their mutual perceived safety and self interest.…

> The insularity of police culture generates significant peer pressure for cops to cover each other's backs and to protect their mutual perceived safety and self interest.

If you are a cop and succumb to peer pressure to protect bad cops from the consequences of their actions, then I submit that you are also a bad cop.

We must hold the police to a higher standard than "they're just human; they can't help behaving this way".

Re: A Test of Police Body Cameras Defies Expectations

#154

Post by magnetic »

corey_moncure wrote: post #30
gph wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Instead, I've always thought they were good for those particularly difficult "he said / she said" cases that capture public attention. I agree, but at what price point would you say it's worth it? In principle I want bodycams, but with this new study it's making me wonder if pragmatically it's really worth spending millions of dollars each year just for a handful of difficult 'he said / she said' cases to be better…

An economic solution lies in wait. What is the impact of settlements in "he said / she said" cases resolved in the defendant's favor? Is it "millions of dollars each year"?

I don't know if that works... I mean, even if it's millions of $ each year that PD have to settle/pay, why does it hurt them? Aren't they simply going to pass that cost back to the taxpayers?

Re: A Test of Police Body Cameras Defies Expectations

#155

Post by krapp »

Digory wrote: post #136
s73ver_ wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be shocked if the unredacted video still exists.

In many (most?) US jurisdictions, bodycam video is cloud-hosted by Taser.[0] I don't have direct experience, but I'd bet Taser doesn't let podunk police departments really "erase" video. And given the volume, you'd think it's got to be built on AWS or another big cloud provider, with pretty good forensic tools. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/13/business/taser-internatio...

>I don't have direct experience, but I'd bet Taser doesn't let podunk police departments really "erase" video.

The NYTimes article you posted hints at an uncomfortably cozy relationship between Taser, law enforcement and local governments...

    Yet as Taser works to sell cameras and software to more departments, 
    it is coming under fire for questionable business practices. In some
    instances, it has paid police chiefs to travel to Taser conferences. 

    In other cases, chiefs who have bought Taser products have joined 
    the company as consultants shortly after leaving public service. 
    And several cities have awarded contracts to Taser without 
    competitive bidding.
I wouldn't trust Taser to act as faithful or impartial stewards of this data, when it's in their best business interest to maintain a positive relationship with the very entities whose corruption it exists to expose.

Re: A Test of Police Body Cameras Defies Expectations

#156

Post by katastic »

djrogers wrote: post #128
fao_ wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be illegal otherwise, wouldn't it? Redaction of evidence

You would have to prove a) that it was evidence of a crime, and b) the police had reason to believe or know it was such. In the absence of laws requiring full transparency and access to body cam footage, the body cams are just likely to be abused.

>You would have to prove a) that it was evidence of a crime, and b) the police had reason to believe or know it was such.

Missing audio and a big "redacted" sticker is a pretty damning evidence that "Something" was removed. IF there was nothing to hide, why did they remove it?

Re: A Test of Police Body Cameras Defies Expectations

#157

Post by katastic »

literallycancer wrote: post #143
will_brown wrote: post #60

I was recently the victim of an armed kidnapping, escaping only by jumping out of my own car from the driver seat while in gear with the gunman in the passenger seat. By the time the police arrived, my attacker escaped in my car and the first words out of the sergeants mouth was “cut the crap, quit jerking us around, what really happened?” Sure enough I was in a jurisdiction that only two months prior was equipped wi…

How about firing anyone who tampers with the evidence? And I mean actually let them go, not give them indefinite paid vacation.

My local PD recently sent a guy home for 10 days WITHOUT pay for merely getting mad at his son's football game and throwing a helmet.

It was unbecoming of their professional standards (even off-duty) and he's representing the community. It even made the news (how I heard about it).

So remember, there are plenty of good cops and good forces out there. It's just the shit ones never get held accountable.

Re: A Test of Police Body Cameras Defies Expectations

#158

Post by katastic »

Zak wrote: post #139
frogpelt wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How was the case handled? Did they find the gunman? Was he charged? I ask because, honestly, I don't think I care what they police say when they first walk up as long as they solve the crime, catch the perpetrator. The problem we have nowadays is that we get to see "how the (justice system) sausage is made" a lot more than we used to. And it's disturbing. But those guys out there with uniforms on are the ones trying…

> It's easy to be an armchair quarterback. I don't know how to be an orthopedic surgeon. The closest thing I've had to medical training was a first aid and CPR class. What I do know is that if an orthopedic surgeon, upon first seeing an overweight patient complaining of hip pain says "lay off the cheeseburgers and your hip will be fine, you fat slob", that doctor is doing a bad job. Not only is it hostile and rude, i…

> It's easy to be an armchair quarterback.

If my arm was made out of a chair, I'd think I'd have difficulty throwing the ball to a wide receiver.

Re: A Test of Police Body Cameras Defies Expectations

#159

Post by katastic »

will_brown wrote: post #145
frogpelt wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How was the case handled? Did they find the gunman? Was he charged? I ask because, honestly, I don't think I care what they police say when they first walk up as long as they solve the crime, catch the perpetrator. The problem we have nowadays is that we get to see "how the (justice system) sausage is made" a lot more than we used to. And it's disturbing. But those guys out there with uniforms on are the ones trying…

Here is what happened... The next morning I get a call from the detective in the county to the South confirming he obtained video from the gas station where this all originated (the defendant approaching me while I’m pumping gas). Next I get a notification from Apple my iPad has been found, which I placed in lost/stolen mode. I call the detective who doesn’t answer his phone and then the police station in the county…

Sounds like you should move if your PD department is that terrible.

And I'm being serious. If it's that big of a problem for you, and you're getting robbed at gunpoint, GET THE CRAP OUT OF THERE.

Re: A Test of Police Body Cameras Defies Expectations

#160

Post by goialoq »

krapp wrote: post #155
Digory wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In many (most?) US jurisdictions, bodycam video is cloud-hosted by Taser.[0] I don't have direct experience, but I'd bet Taser doesn't let podunk police departments really "erase" video. And given the volume, you'd think it's got to be built on AWS or another big cloud provider, with pretty good forensic tools. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/13/business/taser-internatio...

>I don't have direct experience, but I'd bet Taser doesn't let podunk police departments really "erase" video. The NYTimes article you posted hints at an uncomfortably cozy relationship between Taser, law enforcement and local governments... Yet as Taser works to sell cameras and software to more departments, it is coming under fire for questionable business practices. In some instances, it has paid police chiefs to…

Taser also operates a legal-defense-aid operation for police officers who use Tasers to break the law.
Post reply on HN