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A Test of Police Body Cameras Defies Expectations

nytimes.com

141–150 of 353 posts

Re: A Test of Police Body Cameras Defies Expectations

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He said: >Police officers are almost entirely decent people . . . Between 20% and 40% abuse their families. Does an entirely decent person abuse his family? I'm not aware of a higher family abuse rate among EMTs, and a quick Google search produced nothing, so I'd appreciate any sources. Your reasoning makes sense, but I can just as easily say that violent people are more inclined to be police officers and soldiers -…

The problem is that the Atlantic publishes very selective data. Yes police officers have higher rates than the average, but you know who has higher than even those wife beating cops? Men that work in "demeaning jobs" or professions that are attributed traditionally to women like clerks, secretaries, teacher/classroom aides and maids/helpers. The vast majority of those articles boil down to a handful of studies the on…

> the Atlantic publishes very selective data

What is that based on?

Re: A Test of Police Body Cameras Defies Expectations

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that the Atlantic publishes very selective data. Yes police officers have higher rates than the average, but you know who has higher than even those wife beating cops? Men that work in "demeaning jobs" or professions that are attributed traditionally to women like clerks, secretaries, teacher/classroom aides and maids/helpers. The vast majority of those articles boil down to a handful of studies the on…

> the Atlantic publishes very selective data What is that based on?

Because based on every study while police officers, soldiers and other people that are put in stressful and life threatening situations do exhibit higher rates of abuse men that work at jobs that hurt their ego are even more prominently represented and unlike police officers, soldiers and emergency services personnel they don't have a PTSD just a small dick problem.

Re: A Test of Police Body Cameras Defies Expectations

#143

I was recently the victim of an armed kidnapping, escaping only by jumping out of my own car from the driver seat while in gear with the gunman in the passenger seat. By the time the police arrived, my attacker escaped in my car and the first words out of the sergeants mouth was “cut the crap, quit jerking us around, what really happened?” Sure enough I was in a jurisdiction that only two months prior was equipped wi…

How about firing anyone who tampers with the evidence? And I mean actually let them go, not give them indefinite paid vacation.

Re: A Test of Police Body Cameras Defies Expectations

#144
post #46
post #3

It probably shouldn't be that big of a surprise. Police officers are almost entirely decent people that shouldn't feel the need to change their behavior just because they're being recorded. Regular citizens would already be on their best behavior around cops, the camera doesn't change much. I think people get a skewed perception of the police force from a relatively small number of highly publicized incidents. Counte…

I can't agree with the characterization of them being "almost entirely decent people" when they clam up and defend the objectively bad among them. Decent people don't do that.

Seems like either a) decent people in fact do that, or b) there just aren't many decent people out there, based on the evidence of the behavior of insiders in pretty much ever organization or industry that's ever had a highly-placed sexual assaulter, fraudster, or similar.

Re: A Test of Police Body Cameras Defies Expectations

#145

I was recently the victim of an armed kidnapping, escaping only by jumping out of my own car from the driver seat while in gear with the gunman in the passenger seat. By the time the police arrived, my attacker escaped in my car and the first words out of the sergeants mouth was “cut the crap, quit jerking us around, what really happened?” Sure enough I was in a jurisdiction that only two months prior was equipped wi…

How was the case handled? Did they find the gunman? Was he charged? I ask because, honestly, I don't think I care what they police say when they first walk up as long as they solve the crime, catch the perpetrator. The problem we have nowadays is that we get to see "how the (justice system) sausage is made" a lot more than we used to. And it's disturbing. But those guys out there with uniforms on are the ones trying…

Here is what happened...

The next morning I get a call from the detective in the county to the South confirming he obtained video from the gas station where this all originated (the defendant approaching me while I’m pumping gas).

Next I get a notification from Apple my iPad has been found, which I placed in lost/stolen mode. I call the detective who doesn’t answer his phone and then the police station in the county where I escaped and my iPad was located. Dispatch informed me they would not go to the address provided by Apple to look for the defendant, my car or iPad until I drove back up to that county and met with the police.

I drove back to the county and met with two police officers who drove to the address (only 1.5 miles from the police station) but they did not see my vehicle, and apparently there was no way they would get a warrant to search the domicile for my iPad and they wouldn’t bother knocking to see if the suspect was there.

Unconvinced I worked up the nerve to drive by the property myself...I’ll be damned if I didn’t see my car driving up and down the streets of this neighborhood. I did my best to tail the car until it parked 1 house away from the address provided by Apple, and watched as the defendant got out of my car walked into the the street as I drove past. Once again I called 911 and plead they come back out to the address while I waited a few blocks away.

Once I saw a police car enter the neighborhood I followed until we arrived at my car which had already been relocated about a block away from where I saw it park and I drove past the defendant. On scene an officer was questioning 2 individuals on the front porch of the house where my car was parked and the defendant was standing on the sidewalk about 5 feet from my car. I basically yelled officer that’s the man who kidnapped me with a gun and car jacked me. He was handcuffed and taken into custody.

Shortly after I was asked to appear at the police station where I ended up being questioned and accused of trying to buy “the hard stuff”...I had to ask, apparently that’s crack. And this was the same detective who already obtained video of the gas station corroborating my entire story, I explained I was an attorney that I had just run 18 miles on the morning I was kidnapped (showed my run keeper app and everything) and otherwise I wasn’t celebrating my 18 mile run with crack. Almost immediately I was told I can go, of course I asked if he would get a warrant to recover my iPad and more important look for the gun, and I was told “no, those kinds of resources don’t exist.”

The defendant was arrested on Sunday, charged with grand theft of an auto and bonded out on Monday. Not until the “State Attorney Hearing” a few weeks later where the State attoney confirmed she had 2 prior cases against this guy where with similar facts: he stole a car in the county to the South and the cars were recovered in the county to the North, did I finally feel vindicated. Then, 1 week later his bond was revoked and the real charges came including assault with a deadly weapon and kidnapping with a fire arm.

As to it being easy to be a armchair quarterback, I wouldn’t know but I’ll take your word for it.

Edit: deleted link to the public record of the case

Re: A Test of Police Body Cameras Defies Expectations

#146
post #120

1) The feedback loop is not just being filmed on the job, but the repercussions of being filmed while doing something illegal and being punished for it. It might take time for this to sink in, especially for the bad apples. 2) Having body cams on all police officers simply makes sense, regardless of the immediate effect. Knowing exactly (or more about) what happened when a citizen armed on behalf of the state interac…

There is a decent privacy argument to be made against body cams. Not just for the officers themselves, but also for the people approached by the officers. In many cases, when police need to get involved people aren't showing their best sides. Recordings of that kind of stuff are rather sensitive. You gotta remember that body cams can't just be used against corrupt police, they can just as easily be used against the p…

>There is a decent privacy argument to be made against body cams. Not just for the officers themselves, but also for the people approached by the officers. In many cases, when police need to get involved people aren't showing their best sides. Recordings of that kind of stuff are rather sensitive.

Why would there be any expectation of privacy for public officials?

Re: A Test of Police Body Cameras Defies Expectations

#147
post #3

It probably shouldn't be that big of a surprise. Police officers are almost entirely decent people that shouldn't feel the need to change their behavior just because they're being recorded. Regular citizens would already be on their best behavior around cops, the camera doesn't change much. I think people get a skewed perception of the police force from a relatively small number of highly publicized incidents. Counte…

Counter counter option: Not all districts are created equally. We know from history that some districts have become so corrupt that the feds had to step in and replace entire police forces. I suspect police abuse is not as wide-spread as we've been led to believe by social justice marketing, but I'm open to evidence to the contrary. Let's put our engineers to work and get the costs of these camera systems way down, a…

> social justice marketing ... not just the BLM folks ...

It doesn't sound like you are "open to evidence to the contrary". Those words seem to dismiss such evidence.

Re: A Test of Police Body Cameras Defies Expectations

#148
post #70
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But we're talking about incidents that are public. When Eric Garner was choked to death by police, I don't recall hearing a lot of cops call for those detectives to be fired. Hell, when the Mayor of NYC said something about it, at the next event, cops turned their backs on him. These are not "decent people".

> Hell, when the Mayor of NYC said something about it, at the next event, cops turned their backs on him. > These are not "decent people". I really don't think it's that clear cut. The cops who turned their backs aren't all, necessarily, bad people. The insularity of police culture generates significant peer pressure for cops to cover each other's backs and to protect their mutual perceived safety and self interest.…

[deleted]

Re: A Test of Police Body Cameras Defies Expectations

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How was the case handled? Did they find the gunman? Was he charged? I ask because, honestly, I don't think I care what they police say when they first walk up as long as they solve the crime, catch the perpetrator. The problem we have nowadays is that we get to see "how the (justice system) sausage is made" a lot more than we used to. And it's disturbing. But those guys out there with uniforms on are the ones trying…

It's easy to be an armchair quarterback. I hear this every time someone with a difficult job has it pointed out to them that they're doing it badly. They don't even pretend that somehow makes it acceptable to do the job badly; I honestly don't know what effect saying it is supposed to have.

It's an ad hominem attempt to deflect attention back at the attacker. Being wrong is hard to deal with, so you change the subject. It is a fairly subconscious reaction.

Re: A Test of Police Body Cameras Defies Expectations

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Police officers are almost entirely decent people should perhaps be > Police officers are almost entirely almost decent people The fact that the "few" (so we're told) bad apples aren't rooted out by their fellow honest, law-abiding officers suggests they're not as squeaky clean as some might think.

Or they don't know. I had a coworker who was recently arrested for child porn. Despite knowing and working with him for years there was no indication that he wasn't "squeaky clean".

How wouldn't they know? They go 99% of the time in groups of 2 or more. (And part of the reason for this is precisely to avoid that 1 of them goes rogue when working alone).

Your co-worker didn't wank off to child porn at work with his workmates, I reckon. You cannot compare both situations.

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