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A Test of Police Body Cameras Defies Expectations

nytimes.com

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Re: A Test of Police Body Cameras Defies Expectations

#131

Post by jamesw6811 »

dpark wrote: post #76
BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not upset about what they measured. I'm upset about what they claim they learned from it and about the kinds of causation-related lemmata they (erroneously) assert in the report.

Firstly, you're critiquing a study based on a journalist's write-up about it. Secondly, you're essentially making an epistemological argument. You could apply your core argument to almost anything and come up with the assertion that the research is invalid. "Researchers tracked use-of-force incidents" -> "Researchers tracked reports of use-of-force incidents, which is factually rather different. "Researchers observed…

There is a pretty big difference in your two examples. Models of bosons behave in a predictable way. I can think of several likely reasons that reports of use-of-force incidents would not correlate directly with actual use-of-force.

As a result, in a study or a journalistic write-up of said study, I wouldn't jump to the shorthand of "tracked use-of-force incidents" as opposed to "reports of use-of-force incidents".

Just because something is the best way of measuring a quantity we currently have doesn't mean it is good enough to equate the measurement with the quantity in shorthand.

Re: A Test of Police Body Cameras Defies Expectations

#132

Post by rayiner »

KGIII wrote: post #112
FireBeyond wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My thoughts here would be "is an attorney".

Mine was prosecuting attorney. I don't think defense attorneys are considered officers of the court, but I'm not sure and it may vary by jurisdiction.

All attorneys are considered officers of the court (at least in America). It’s concomitant with the various ethical regulations imposed on licensed lawyers.

Re: A Test of Police Body Cameras Defies Expectations

#133

Post by drharby »

will_brown wrote: post #60

I was recently the victim of an armed kidnapping, escaping only by jumping out of my own car from the driver seat while in gear with the gunman in the passenger seat. By the time the police arrived, my attacker escaped in my car and the first words out of the sergeants mouth was “cut the crap, quit jerking us around, what really happened?” Sure enough I was in a jurisdiction that only two months prior was equipped wi…

So at what point are leos liable to destruction of evidence? Whats the current state of affairs?

Re: A Test of Police Body Cameras Defies Expectations

#135

Post by djrogers »

floatingatoll wrote: post #116

Is the Washington DC police district known to be relatively free of the corruption that plagues e.g. Oakland and Chicago? It's possible they measured a district that's already "constantly under observation", and thus detected no significant behavioral shifts.

If you read the article you would find that very issue addressed:

"After a devastating 1998 Washington Post series revealed that the city’s police department had shot and killed more people per resident in the 1990s than any other police force in a large American city, the Department of Justice entered into a memorandum of agreement with D.C. to reform its policing.

“We went through a transformation with regard to use of force when Justice came in here,” Chief Newsham said.

Cities that lack such accountability in their police culture may find cameras more effective, under this theory. "

Re: A Test of Police Body Cameras Defies Expectations

#136

Post by Digory »

s73ver_ wrote: post #104
cryptonector wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fixing this will have to be the next step. The first step was getting the body cams. Also, you could probably file a suit to get the unredacted video, and you could make a big stink about this. That's how you get to the next step.

I would be shocked if the unredacted video still exists.

In many (most?) US jurisdictions, bodycam video is cloud-hosted by Taser.[0]

I don't have direct experience, but I'd bet Taser doesn't let podunk police departments really "erase" video. And given the volume, you'd think it's got to be built on AWS or another big cloud provider, with pretty good forensic tools.

[0] https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/13/business/taser-internatio...

Re: A Test of Police Body Cameras Defies Expectations

#137

Post by dogma1138 »

grasshopperpurp wrote: post #91
dogma1138 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Family violence is also more common in first responders/EMTs and soldiers. Take a wild guess on what those have in common with police officers. People that are constantly exposed to highly stressful situations tend to develop psychological problems.

He said: >Police officers are almost entirely decent people . . . Between 20% and 40% abuse their families. Does an entirely decent person abuse his family? I'm not aware of a higher family abuse rate among EMTs, and a quick Google search produced nothing, so I'd appreciate any sources. Your reasoning makes sense, but I can just as easily say that violent people are more inclined to be police officers and soldiers -…

The problem is that the Atlantic publishes very selective data.

Yes police officers have higher rates than the average, but you know who has higher than even those wife beating cops? Men that work in "demeaning jobs" or professions that are attributed traditionally to women like clerks, secretaries, teacher/classroom aides and maids/helpers.

The vast majority of those articles boil down to a handful of studies the one linked below is probably the most commonly referenced.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1741-3737.2002....

And yes most police officers are decent and professional people, but there isn't such thing as being universally decent and any person is capable of the utmost indecency.

And you know what they say about so many intimate partner abuse cases? he/she was the nicest person in the world I would never think they would be capable of it....

People that abuse their partner more often than not do it as a release mechanism rather than their normal pattern of behaviour.

Re: A Test of Police Body Cameras Defies Expectations

#138

Post by forapurpose »

jandrese wrote: post #3

It probably shouldn't be that big of a surprise. Police officers are almost entirely decent people that shouldn't feel the need to change their behavior just because they're being recorded. Regular citizens would already be on their best behavior around cops, the camera doesn't change much. I think people get a skewed perception of the police force from a relatively small number of highly publicized incidents. Counte…

> I think people get a skewed perception of the police force from a relatively small number of highly publicized incidents.

What is this statement based on? Can you provide any data? What about people - whole communities in many places, over generations - who claim to be persecuted continuously by police. Are those people making it up? The people protesting in St Louis - what are they spending all that time and energy on if there is no problem?

This issue has been discussed heavily; I think more 'IMHOs' don't add to what we know about it.

Re: A Test of Police Body Cameras Defies Expectations

#139

Post by Zak »

frogpelt wrote: post #96
will_brown wrote: post #60

I was recently the victim of an armed kidnapping, escaping only by jumping out of my own car from the driver seat while in gear with the gunman in the passenger seat. By the time the police arrived, my attacker escaped in my car and the first words out of the sergeants mouth was “cut the crap, quit jerking us around, what really happened?” Sure enough I was in a jurisdiction that only two months prior was equipped wi…

How was the case handled? Did they find the gunman? Was he charged? I ask because, honestly, I don't think I care what they police say when they first walk up as long as they solve the crime, catch the perpetrator. The problem we have nowadays is that we get to see "how the (justice system) sausage is made" a lot more than we used to. And it's disturbing. But those guys out there with uniforms on are the ones trying…

> It's easy to be an armchair quarterback.

I don't know how to be an orthopedic surgeon. The closest thing I've had to medical training was a first aid and CPR class. What I do know is that if an orthopedic surgeon, upon first seeing an overweight patient complaining of hip pain says "lay off the cheeseburgers and your hip will be fine, you fat slob", that doctor is doing a bad job. Not only is it hostile and rude, it fails to attempt to adequately understand the situation before rushing to judgement.

I do know a little about how to be a police officer. I went to school for it, but decided that wasn't what I want to do with my life. Accusing a complainant of lying right off the bat without any investigation when the complaint is anything more believable than an alien abduction, then having the evidence of your rudeness deleted is not how to be a good cop. I don't think it really takes much training or experience to reach that conclusion.

Re: A Test of Police Body Cameras Defies Expectations

#140

Post by rhizome »

Clubber wrote: post #125
rhizome wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should sprinkle some more "I think" and "I believe" and "I'm under the impression" when stating your opinions, because none of what you say is anything more than speculation and just-so stories.

When writing an opinion piece, at least in formal writing which has higher standards, writers are trained not to do that. At least in the writing classes I took ages ago. Here's why: https://preciseedit.wordpress.com/2009/06/19/in-my-opinion-i...

I agree, and of course there's an implied statement of opinion in screeds like GP's, but they set up such a tenuous chain of causality that I just couldn't help myself.
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