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Purism Librem Laptops Completely Disable Intel’s Management Engine

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Re: Purism Librem Laptops Completely Disable Intel’s Management Engine

#141

Post by kakarot »

mi100hael wrote: post #10
hedora wrote: post #6

I really want one of these, but the ergonomics look awful. Is there a technical reason they only come with low resolution (1080p) screens? (“Linux” is not a valid reason...) Also, as much as I would like a 15” screen, the off center keyboard is a deal-breaker. It’s just asking for RSI. Does anyone own one? How is the trackpad / keyboard / battery life / fan noise? Maybe I can deal with 1080p in exchange for a reasona…

Yeah I would have bought one when I was shopping but numpads on a laptop are a terrible idea. I ended up going for a Dell Precision 15 instead.

Actually for me a numpad is a requirement. Some of my tools specifically rely on numpad key mappings.

Re: Purism Librem Laptops Completely Disable Intel’s Management Engine

#142

Post by mi100hael »

klibertp wrote: post #21
mi100hael wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I would have bought one when I was shopping but numpads on a laptop are a terrible idea. I ended up going for a Dell Precision 15 instead.

> numpads on a laptop are a terrible idea. I disagree completely. Having a numpad on a laptop is the only way of getting cursors and function keys (from Home to Insert to Delete) in a sane place. On my current laptop, were it not for a numpad, I'd have to press a Fn key every time I wanted to use Home/End. I'd also need to hunt for Delete somewhere above the Backspace, and PageUp/PageDown being on both sides of Up ar…

> There are downsides - mainly the fact that it's harder to work with a laptop actually on my lap, ie. it's harder to balance the device when most of the applied weight is on the left side, but I can deal with this with a $20 laptop tray.

If you're already always using the laptop on a desk or table with a stand because it's too awkward to use, you know, on your lap... then just get a real keyboard to go with it.

I use an external keyboard on my desks at work and at home, but at least I can put my laptop on my lap and still use it on-the-go, too (which I do on a daily basis).

Re: Purism Librem Laptops Completely Disable Intel’s Management Engine

#143

Post by mi100hael »

kbart wrote: post #32
Yaggo wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just out of curiosity, what kind of work do you do?

(Embedded) System engineer, so lot's of hex typing and editing. It's a pain without full numpad.

Why not just use the row of numbers along the top? It's way faster anyway once you learn them.

Re: Purism Librem Laptops Completely Disable Intel’s Management Engine

#144

Post by andy_ppp »

jchw wrote: post #63
andy_ppp wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No you don’t need better than 1080p but most developers need crisp text and I would like to go further and 4k 15inch displays would be perfect for me as it would allow me to have smaller text without a loss of quality.

It's a bit absurd to argue that you need a high pixel density to code. It's no longer an insane luxury, but even being a relatively younger programmer I remember 640x480 being the highest resolution my first personal computer could display. What fundamentally changed about programming that now we can't even do it without 200 PPI displays? Obviously, nothing. High resolution for most people is still just a 'nice to ha…

It’s a bit absurd that you don’t need a roof over your head that isn’t made out of mud... Do you see the idea that people make normal and impossible to live without without it being really “needed” - having a structured that doesn’t put mud into your foor is important not because it’s really necessary but because our standards have improved.

Re: Purism Librem Laptops Completely Disable Intel’s Management Engine

#145

Post by Drdrdrq »

samirillian wrote: post #88
yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Libraries are probably fine, but pulling them from Google means that Google can track you

Don't know how I never put this together. Good (cynical) explanation for Google fonts.

This is not cynical, it's realistic. After all, tracking users is closely tied to their main source of income. It is not a coincidence that most pages use Google Analytics.

Re: Purism Librem Laptops Completely Disable Intel’s Management Engine

#146

Post by Drdrdrq »

driverdan wrote: post #97
kbart wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Embedded) System engineer, so lot's of hex typing and editing. It's a pain without full numpad.

Here you go: https://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=topre_keyboards,... Yes, it's expensive but it'll be the nicest numpad you've ever used. Topre switches are the best.

Are they any quieter than Cherry brown? I bought a Das keyboard and it is driving me nuts. I appreciate the tactile feel, but noise not so much.

Re: Purism Librem Laptops Completely Disable Intel’s Management Engine

#147

Post by Drdrdrq »

dmix wrote: post #83
hedora wrote: post #6

I really want one of these, but the ergonomics look awful. Is there a technical reason they only come with low resolution (1080p) screens? (“Linux” is not a valid reason...) Also, as much as I would like a 15” screen, the off center keyboard is a deal-breaker. It’s just asking for RSI. Does anyone own one? How is the trackpad / keyboard / battery life / fan noise? Maybe I can deal with 1080p in exchange for a reasona…

Why would Linux even been a reason for low resolution? Plenty of software supports hi-dpi.

Xfce unfortunately not. I have 4k laptop set at 1280p because it is impossible to set everything so that it doesn't look ridiculously small. Still, I prefer low res to KDE/Unity/Gnome.

Re: Purism Librem Laptops Completely Disable Intel’s Management Engine

#148

Post by squarefoot »

dmix wrote: post #115
jonathanstrange wrote: post #92

Call me cynic, but it wouldn't surprise me if the NSA intercepted those in their hardware interception program[1] and install spyware on them whenever they are delivered to an address outside the US. [1] https://www.extremetech.com/computing/173721-the-nsa-regular...

That's why the OS should check to make sure the ME is still disabled and not boot otherwise, or signature check it somehow, create a hardware indicator, etc. But then there's still the harddrive firmware and who knows what else. Still, this is upping the bar quite a bit if you're security conscious. In security all you can do is make the attackers lives harder, you can't fool proof it. Plus they mentioned two differe…

"But then there's still the harddrive firmware and who knows what else."

Graphics card blobs, wifi cards blobs, etc. Just about every vital subsystem on a modern PC/phone/tablet etc. has been compromised by design through closed device drivers so that someone with enough skills and access to those information (such as some 3 letter agencies) can create a sort of covert channel where data can be computed, read or stored and transmitted without any means of intercepting that by any applications, because every part it's going to pass through contains some closed code that can be instructed to encrypt and tunnel the data from one place to another.

This came to mind years ago when I was struggling with a network card requiring a firmware blob that refused to load. I started wondering why were they making things so complicated for users and admins by keeping drivers closed; that blob could have contained just about every possible malware in existence and I would never have noticed it. Then I had a flash: disk drives also contain closed firmware, and video cards too. I recall having thought "heh, if they had a blob into the CPU as well they could close the circle and build a system where they can move information inside the machine or receive/transmit them from/to the external world completely unbeknown to the user. Then years later I read about Intel ME and got a thousand flashes because I almost saw that coming.

To me there is no such thing as a trustworthy system anywhere in the world, at least not until every single line of its software, firmware and hardware has been opened for public scrutiny. There is too much at stake, and surveillance is a damn rich business both for companies and people in power.

Re: Purism Librem Laptops Completely Disable Intel’s Management Engine

#149

Post by askvictor »

nilved wrote: post #105
askvictor wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One reason would be that the browser will cache them if they are used in multiple sites, so loading will be much faster on subsequent sites using the same resources. Another might be that such resources load faster off a CDN than your own server.

In practice, this never happens. The value is certainly less than the data you're selling about your users to Google.

What data are you giving to Google (or another CDN) by loading jQuery or a font from them? What does the ToS say? Genuine question.

Edit: here's the ToS: https://developers.google.com/speed/libraries/terms If you believe Google, they're not collecting anything.

Re: Purism Librem Laptops Completely Disable Intel’s Management Engine

#150

Post by pdimitar »

jonathanstrange wrote: post #92

Call me cynic, but it wouldn't surprise me if the NSA intercepted those in their hardware interception program[1] and install spyware on them whenever they are delivered to an address outside the US. [1] https://www.extremetech.com/computing/173721-the-nsa-regular...

My exact worry. All of this sounds pretty good but for a person like myself, living in Eastern Europe, ordering such a laptop means the physical shipment can go through 20+ places where an agent could intercept it, get to a back room, modify the hardware and/or the software for no longer than 1-2 hours, put it back in the box and you'll be none the wiser.

I am just not sure how can I trust anybody at this point. I am even wondering if the Librem products aren't a honeypot for the privacy-conscious individuals.

A good strategist understands the needs of their opponents and can imitate an organization that serves them. How much do we know about Librem really?

That line of thinking doesn't go anywhere though. And ever since the ancient ages, we haven't invented tamper-proof packaging and shipping.

Still, we have one thing going for us. The agencies are usually slow to adapt. So it's probably a safe bet that the first several thousand of those laptops will be secure for real.

(EDIT: With 16GB of RAM being the maximum, none of the three laptops are good enough fit for me yet.)

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