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The Acceleration of Addictiveness

paulgraham.com

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Re: The Acceleration of Addictiveness

#241

Post by cabalamat »

johnrob wrote: post #35

It might be too broad to refer to the internet as a single entity. Those of us with internet addiction are actually addicted to specific things online - the internet is just the medium. In the case of hacker news, what we're addicted to is startup news and gossip. It's ironic that this very morning I was thinking about how to produce some sort of audio version of HN for my daily commute.

> In the case of hacker news, what we're addicted to is startup news and gossip.

Not me. I'm more interested in programming technology and understanding how trends in technology shape society -- and reading PG's essay has helped me do this.

Re: The Acceleration of Addictiveness

#242

Post by cabalamat »

> I suspect the recent resurgence of evangelical Christianity in the US is partly a reaction to drugs.

I think it's wider than that: religious fundamentalism is a response to the future shock Alvin Toffler wrote about. Christian (and Muslim) fundamentalists find the world a scary place and want to retreat into a mythical past that has more certainty in it.

Re: The Acceleration of Addictiveness

#243

Post by nevinera »

Using the word 'addiction' to refer to things that are not physically addictive is one of my pet peeves. He addresses this point somewhat and I realize that it is a very common colloquial use, but it shouldn't be. It strongly conflates the two problems when in reality they are orthogonal concepts that interact.

Re: The Acceleration of Addictiveness

#244

Post by jacquesm »

cabalamat wrote: post #239
jacquesm wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you've ever seen someone go 'cold-turkey' then you realise that plenty of additions have reached the status of 'physical need'. In fact, at a molecular level in the brain almost all addictive substances and activities have a physical component. I once read a book about addiction, the title was 'from chocolate to heroin' or something to that effect. It listed an absolutely amazing number of substances that you can…

> In fact, at a molecular level in the brain almost all addictive substances and activities have a physical component. Surely you could remove the "almost" from this sentence and it still be right. ALL deliberate behaviours are caused by brain activity, and therefore have physical components because the brain is a physical object.

Yes, you're right.

Re: The Acceleration of Addictiveness

#245

Post by lincolnq »

drewcrawford wrote: post #171
mattchew wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What does it mean to say it is bad? How about this: if in advance of the behavior, you intend to partake moderately, and in the event you consistently overindulge, and after the fact you regret your excess, then something about this behavior is bad. I'm leaving aside some of the other points you bring up, but if you've got a habit that consistently leads to dissatisfaction and regret, I think it's fair to call it a…

> if in advance of the behavior, you intend to partake moderately, and in the event you consistently overindulge, and after the fact you regret your excess, then something about this behavior is bad. (This is not at all intended to be a joke:) In many cultures, homosexual activity would meet this criteria. There are many social and psychological reasons for guilt to manifest itself, and I don't think that these alone…

If I wasted 1-3 hours each day I would be okay. Some days I waste far less than this and feel good. But some days, I have lots of stuff to do, and I accidentally spend like 5 or 6 hours on HN and then I feel really shitty afterwards. _That_ is why we are trying to fix this problem. Maybe this doesn't happen to you, and that's good. But it does happen to me sometimes.

Re: The Acceleration of Addictiveness

#246

Post by logicalmind »

patio11 wrote: post #119

I worry about the acceleration of addiction in particular subgroups of the population. WoW (or Farmville), for example, is not crystal meth... but that flippant observation is a response to a core truth that some people just have a lot of trouble saying no. Maybe they're poorly educated, maybe they're genetically predisposed to addiction, maybe they're clinically depressed, for whatever the reason they've got a weake…

There is a much easier explanation. There are people who have crappy lives. Whether by their own decisions, by fate, or by circumstance, their normal daily lives are something they are trying to avoid. Anything that helps them avoid the reality of their life becomes addictive. The only way to fix this problem is by changing their lives. But Oprah is already making a large profit by selling them that idea.

Re: The Acceleration of Addictiveness

#247

Post by chops »

cabalamat wrote: post #238
DenisM wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what do you do if you're a startup founder at the next Zynga and discover... It depends on what your goals were. :) If you were in it for the money you plow right ahead. If you waned to make the world a better place (and get paid for that) you dump it on your investors and move on to the next thing. Another option is to see if you can put what you learned about compulsive behaviors to better uses - I think the wo…

> I think the world would be better off if people were compulsive about maintaining good finances, hygiene, business schedule etc. Better yet, compulsively making sure they did the best they could for their family. I imagine they would, but that sounds like a hard problem to me. I suspect it's AI-complete; the only way to do it would be for post-singularity AI to control the destiny of the human species. I've never s…

Rock Band 3 Pro Mode will actually teach you to play instruments:

From: http://www.rockband.com/zine/rock-band-3-announcements

The Rock Band 3 Squier Stratocaster is a fully functional, full-sized, six-string electric guitar that also functions as a game controller that Fender and Harmonix have teamed up to develop.

Re: The Acceleration of Addictiveness

#248

Post by gwern »

jimbokun wrote: post #233
gwern wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not just drugs, but all the different things pg cites as addictive. Plugging in to older value systems is one way of putting a brake on those impulses. This, of course, is true of many other religious and cultural systems that have stood the test of time, not just Christianity. I hope I was not the only one who instantly thought of Neal Stephenson's _The Diamond Age_ and its phyles (especially the Victorians).

I thought exactly of that, too! Just didn't get around to working it into my comment. :) I remember reading that, wondering who is today's equivalent of the Victorians. (The Victorians, of course, were the historical equivalent of the Victorians.)

> I remember reading that, wondering who is today's equivalent of the Victorians.

Inside the US? I'd go with the Amish first, inasmuch as they pretty much are from the Victorian era. (Technically they were much earlier, but I figure they've drifted that far forward.)

Outside of small or weird groups, I would guess the Asian-Americans (Japan/China/South Korea, to be exact) are the closest in their high valuation of education, thrift, repressed social mores, and reputation.

Re: The Acceleration of Addictiveness

#249

Post by DenisM »

chops wrote: post #247
cabalamat wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think the world would be better off if people were compulsive about maintaining good finances, hygiene, business schedule etc. Better yet, compulsively making sure they did the best they could for their family. I imagine they would, but that sounds like a hard problem to me. I suspect it's AI-complete; the only way to do it would be for post-singularity AI to control the destiny of the human species. I've never s…

Rock Band 3 Pro Mode will actually teach you to play instruments: From: http://www.rockband.com/zine/rock-band-3-announcements The Rock Band 3 Squier Stratocaster is a fully functional, full-sized, six-string electric guitar that also functions as a game controller that Fender and Harmonix have teamed up to develop.

Is it true? Can you actually learn to play guitar on this thing? I got to try it. Fondling strings should be an effective way to get away from it all.

Re: The Acceleration of Addictiveness

#250

Post by benmathes »

pg wrote: post #179
patio11 wrote: post #119

I worry about the acceleration of addiction in particular subgroups of the population. WoW (or Farmville), for example, is not crystal meth... but that flippant observation is a response to a core truth that some people just have a lot of trouble saying no. Maybe they're poorly educated, maybe they're genetically predisposed to addiction, maybe they're clinically depressed, for whatever the reason they've got a weake…

In practice I would draw the line at things that are mostly consumed by addicts. So I'd have no problem being a vintner, but I wouldn't want to be a heroin manufacturer, even if it were legal. There are various edge cases you'd have to treat individually-- e.g. if the median user wasn't an addict but all your revenues came from the addicts. In that case, again, I probably wouldn't want to do it.

Speaking as someone that worked at one of Zynga's main competitors, I can assure you that industry makes 90% of its revenue off 10% of its users. It's a mental addiction to simulated success.
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