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Analyzing HN moderation and censorship

drewdevault.com

331–340 of 409 posts

Re: Analyzing HN moderation and censorship

#331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's clear to everyone how the mediums are different. What's not clear is how subjective decisions CNN makes about what to air are acceptable, but subjective decisions HN makes about what to allow on the front page aren't. What's especially weird about this argument is that the US media market is in fact in the middle of a giant debate about how acceptable CNN and Fox News's editorial decisions are. It's not…

Thank you, I understand where you're coming from now. Let me clarify. The difference is because CNN makes a subjective editorial decision about what to air. Their content is curated and prepared by paid staff. The success of CNN is entirely built on the talent and hard work of these people. There's a whole side discussion about the ethical responsibilities of CNN we can have, but let's set that aside and just disting…

I don't question your ability to call for it, but I don't think it's realistic to expect it. HN is built on a whole lot of user participation, but YC has also spent millions of actual dollars keeping it running, maintained, and moderated. It belongs to them, not to us.

Your recourse, if you don't like how they're managing it, is to start your own site, or to move to a different site. Indeed, if value on HN primarily comes from its users, as you say, it's hard to imagine a more powerful recourse to have.

Tangentially, I think HN's value to YC is hugely overblown. YC has been privately telling batch companies not to participate here for almost the whole time the site has existed. The fundamental key to YC's success is being first to fully commit to a market for small investments in marginal startups. It was an extremely good investment thesis, and it compounds dramatically every year as the value of the alumni network increases.

YC could kill off HN tomorrow and it is unlikely it would harm their returns at all. If you're not close to SFBA tech company investing it's easy to miss the extent to which YC is currently running the table on small startup investing, and none of that has anything to do with how HN is moderated.

Re: Analyzing HN moderation and censorship

#332
post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like 'anigbrowl, I simply think it's worth considering the extent to which the moderating staff do or do not personally experience the hostility this place can exhibit to industry minorities.

Paul Graham is originally from the UK. I believe Dan Gackle is Canadian in origin. Patio11 is a white American male living in Japan. Jacquesm is Dutch. Tokenadult has an Asian wife and has lived in Asia. My impression is that the forum is fairly multicultural. It is not a monolith of white American males/white American male culture. I am much more concerned with feeling heard than with whether or not they have firsth…

I don't think this is a super productive debate to have here, but I do want to clarify that I'm not calling for more diversity on the mod staff, as much as just an awareness of what the mod staff is.

Re: Analyzing HN moderation and censorship

#333
post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paul Graham is originally from the UK. I believe Dan Gackle is Canadian in origin. Patio11 is a white American male living in Japan. Jacquesm is Dutch. Tokenadult has an Asian wife and has lived in Asia. My impression is that the forum is fairly multicultural. It is not a monolith of white American males/white American male culture. I am much more concerned with feeling heard than with whether or not they have firsth…

I don't think this is a super productive debate to have here, but I do want to clarify that I'm not calling for more diversity on the mod staff, as much as just an awareness of what the mod staff is.

I wasn't seeking debate. But I do find it ironic that you and angibrowl, both white men, expect to be listened to when you critique the moderating staff wrt to diversity, but you (in specific, because anigbrowl has not weighed in here) are quick to essentially dismiss my statement that as a prominent woman here, I do not have those concerns.

This is an insidious pattern that I see a lot. White men virtue signal about their concerns about sexism, racism, etc, then fail to give real weight to the voices of the very people they claim to be concerned about. The concerns of white males matter and should be heard. The voices of oppressed minorities still are irrelevant, even when the topic is the concern of fair treatment for them.

Re: Analyzing HN moderation and censorship

#334
post #291

I was actually going to build a tool that scrapes HN every couple minutes and looks for stories that were hot (on the front page) and then drops by 20+ slots. I've happened to be involved in a couple threads where this inexplicably happened, and I was unhappy to see the discussion being muted (people previously involved continued commenting, but no new people saw/joined the thread). I was going to show the buried pos…

Why don't you just look at https://news.ycombinator.com/active ? (via https://news.ycombinator.com/lists ). Most if not almost all of those stories show up there. Btw since you brought up the point, we moderate stories less, not more, when they're about YC or YC-funded companies. That's literally the first rule of HN moderation: https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&prefix&page=0&dateRange=... That doesn't mean we don'…

If you have "rules of moderation", maybe you can publish them (or some of them)?

Re: Analyzing HN moderation and censorship

#335
post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is a super productive debate to have here, but I do want to clarify that I'm not calling for more diversity on the mod staff, as much as just an awareness of what the mod staff is.

I wasn't seeking debate. But I do find it ironic that you and angibrowl, both white men, expect to be listened to when you critique the moderating staff wrt to diversity, but you (in specific, because anigbrowl has not weighed in here) are quick to essentially dismiss my statement that as a prominent woman here, I do not have those concerns. This is an insidious pattern that I see a lot. White men virtue signal about…

I honestly don't even know where our disagreement is here.

Re: Analyzing HN moderation and censorship

#336
post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wasn't seeking debate. But I do find it ironic that you and angibrowl, both white men, expect to be listened to when you critique the moderating staff wrt to diversity, but you (in specific, because anigbrowl has not weighed in here) are quick to essentially dismiss my statement that as a prominent woman here, I do not have those concerns. This is an insidious pattern that I see a lot. White men virtue signal about…

I honestly don't even know where our disagreement is here.

Then it would probably be best to just let this go since you have suggested it is not the time or place for it anyway.

Re: Analyzing HN moderation and censorship

#337
post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't you just look at https://news.ycombinator.com/active ? (via https://news.ycombinator.com/lists ). Most if not almost all of those stories show up there. Btw since you brought up the point, we moderate stories less, not more, when they're about YC or YC-funded companies. That's literally the first rule of HN moderation: https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&prefix&page=0&dateRange=... That doesn't mean we don'…

Is there an index of these different views? Today I learned about two more of these seemingly-undocumented URLs. Another being Favorites (which are apparently public): https://news.ycombinator.com/favorites?id=dang

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Re: Analyzing HN moderation and censorship

#338
post #277

I was actually going to build a tool that scrapes HN every couple minutes and looks for stories that were hot (on the front page) and then drops by 20+ slots. I've happened to be involved in a couple threads where this inexplicably happened, and I was unhappy to see the discussion being muted (people previously involved continued commenting, but no new people saw/joined the thread). I was going to show the buried pos…

Please build this

I'm going to reach out to the OP and see if he'd like to collaborate on it, to basically just put a good front-end on the analytics he's already pulling. Fingers crossed — hope to have a Show HN for y'all sometime soon!

Re: Analyzing HN moderation and censorship

#339

In this thread, some people are complaining of moderators downvoting (lowering the rank) of some submissions over others; and at least one person says "let the readers decide". I think that if I wanted a forum/news site where "the readers decide" and ONLY the readers decide, i'd go to Reddit. No thanks, i prefer HN due to the behind-the-scenes 'curation' or choice of content, which so far usually gives very interesti…

I've found moderation on HN to be a bit heavy handed recently. Specifically when it comes to the issue of sexism in SV. No matter the opinion, posts on this seem to get removed shortly after reaching the front page. Question for the mods: Why? It doesn't appear to be a bias towards either side. Is the perception just that people are tied of hearing about it? Why not let the users decide that?

[deleted]

Re: Analyzing HN moderation and censorship

#340

In this thread, some people are complaining of moderators downvoting (lowering the rank) of some submissions over others; and at least one person says "let the readers decide". I think that if I wanted a forum/news site where "the readers decide" and ONLY the readers decide, i'd go to Reddit. No thanks, i prefer HN due to the behind-the-scenes 'curation' or choice of content, which so far usually gives very interesti…

I too prefer my echo chambers to be free of wrong-think.

None of that controversy in my safe space either.

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