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My Journey to a Better Language Learning System

chatterbug.com

31–40 of 134 posts

Re: My Journey to a Better Language Learning System

#31

Personally, I would love to learn a language by watching movies/videos with 3 subtitle tracks: (1) What they are speaking - IN their script (this is called SLS: Same-Language-Subtitling and has been quite successful for literacy programs for one's own language) (2) What they are speaking - IN my script (3) What they MEAN - IN my language (i.e. translation) Data for (1) is easy to find. (2) could theoretically be gene…

In my experience, (1) is actually really hard to find. The subtitles (of translated english movies) are always subtly different than the audio.

Re: My Journey to a Better Language Learning System

#32

I'm a fan of a method of language learning called TPR (Total Physical Response).[1][2][3] It is by far the fastest and easiest way I know of learning vocabulary and grammar. In a nutshell, with TPR the teacher gives the student a command in the target language, demonstrates the action the command is asking for, repeats the command and finally the student copies the action. For example, if English was the target langu…

I've read a lot of TPR(S) and also Krashen, whose research I believe the system is based on. It is somewhat difficult to use some of this theory over video, but we often discuss what we can take from ideas like this to help beginning speakers when they don't have a wide vocabulary they can access. I'm curious if using TPR(S) helped you learn a language? I own a few books on it, but I haven't seen it actually widely implemented.

Re: My Journey to a Better Language Learning System

#33
post #23

I'd love to see more tools go into the space of learning what I consider to be the farthest thing from English. That's like Chinese, Japanese, Korean, etc. There's a lot more that goes into learning these languages due to differences in pronunciation, characters, and sentence structure. I know the demand is often placed on the romance and germanic languages, but they're often easy enough. You can usually bring along…

As for Chinese, the best free option is "HelloChinese" app. Memrise is definitely too "dry" in comparison.

Re: My Journey to a Better Language Learning System

#35
I learned English when I was 12-14. I got to the point where I could converse in it in roughly 9 months between 13 and 14, after doing a 2x a week class with roughly 12 people. Yes, age is a huge factor, but the class was a part of a school that had multiple concurrent tracks, and ours was doing better than others. Age groups were all mixed and I was the youngest there. The keys to success for me were:

1. Teacher who didn't waste time. We plowed through the course material at a pace of roughly two chapters per lesson. This was double the speed of other tracks.

2. Teacher who wasn't a native English speaker. This was huge. A native speaker of English, even a professional teacher, can't usually explain to you things like the difference between past perfect and present perfect tense. Or how conjugation of pronouns works. Or the rules and exceptions of conjugating verbs in different tenses. She was able to explain this because she had to learn it in a structured way.

3. English is a very structured language. Unlike Russian (my first language), it discourages run-on sentences. It also has a specific order of verbs and nouns. It also has a pretty simple system of taking the same sentence through all nine tenses with mostly modifier verbs (be and have). This all maps really neatly into handy charts that are very quick to memorize. By contrast in Russian you have three tenses, so the difference between "I am walking" and "I walk" is up to the reader to discern.

4. English is simpler than Russian when it comes to conjugation. There is no conjugating verbs, adjectives, or adverbs by gender. The only conjugation you do is by tense. "Exception" verbs suck (be, am, was, will/shall). But aside from the most common ones (be, have, go), they fall into one of several patterns(think/thought, bring/brought, ring/rung). Less conjugation is better, and since English requires complete sentences (you don't generally see sentences like "gone" and have to infer who just left, he or she, etc.) no additional information is conveyed by conjugation. Can you tell I hate conjugation? Basically going from Russian to English felt sort of like going from Python to Basic: you have a lot fewer paradigms to worry about, while already being familiar with the paradigms Basic uses.

5. Lots of memorization of words. Once you figure out how to say "Today after work I am going to get dinner with friends" you can easily substitute drinks for dinner, date for friends, school for work, etc. So I made my goal learning the structure of the language and learning enough words to make substitutions. Once I conceptually knew how to use all nine tenses, the rest was simple memorization and usage.

6. Lots of conversations and not being afraid of my bad accent. You know what's great about talking to other students? They don't give a shit that your accent sucks. Native speakers, especially ones outside the classroom might be nice about it, but you are always keenly aware that you don't sound like them.

7. Finally, after I was able to hold conversations in English, emersion helped. Side note: try not to move your kids to a completely new country and send them straight to high school a few months later. It's brutal.

On the other hand, I have failed to learn any other languages since. Part of it is lack of time and motivation since I don't have a specific need for them. Part is that I am in fact older. I am about to take up Japanese and after that maybe get back to French. To this day I have failed to teach any of my past or present partners Russian.

Re: My Journey to a Better Language Learning System

#36
post #29
post #23

I'd love to see more tools go into the space of learning what I consider to be the farthest thing from English. That's like Chinese, Japanese, Korean, etc. There's a lot more that goes into learning these languages due to differences in pronunciation, characters, and sentence structure. I know the demand is often placed on the romance and germanic languages, but they're often easy enough. You can usually bring along…

We will absolutely tackle these languages. We're releasing German for English speakers currently in order to learn better how more customers respond to the methods we're using, and German is more complex grammatically for English speakers than romance languages. Also, I didn't speak any German and I think it's important to use your product yourself. Personally I want very much to return to Japanese myself some day. A…

You should have a mailing list. I would like to be notified when my target language becomes available.

Re: My Journey to a Better Language Learning System

#37
post #34

I'm curious who else in the community here learned a new language to either comfort or fluency and how they did it.

Starting at age 27 I learned French, Spanish, and Italian to a pretty good level: I can understand movies and usually communicate with native speakers without asking them to slow down or switch to English. I used a combination of Assimil (a book + cd series), reading news, listening to the radio, and taking some lessons on italki. I focused on French only for the first ~two years (at the time I was interested only in French and had no ambitions of being "multilingual" or anything). After that Spanish and Italian were much simpler to pick up thanks to shared vocabulary and grammar.

I had no background in linguistics or learning languages apart from (almost entirely forgotten) high school Spanish and a bit of classical Greek in college.

Re: My Journey to a Better Language Learning System

#38
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We will absolutely tackle these languages. We're releasing German for English speakers currently in order to learn better how more customers respond to the methods we're using, and German is more complex grammatically for English speakers than romance languages. Also, I didn't speak any German and I think it's important to use your product yourself. Personally I want very much to return to Japanese myself some day. A…

You should have a mailing list. I would like to be notified when my target language becomes available.

You can go to our signup page and choose "Another Language" and it goes into our waiting list. Then when we release new languages we'll likely contact you first to see if you want to be a beta user. https://chatterbug.com/signup

Re: My Journey to a Better Language Learning System

#39
post #16

Personally, I would love to learn a language by watching movies/videos with 3 subtitle tracks: (1) What they are speaking - IN their script (this is called SLS: Same-Language-Subtitling and has been quite successful for literacy programs for one's own language) (2) What they are speaking - IN my script (3) What they MEAN - IN my language (i.e. translation) Data for (1) is easy to find. (2) could theoretically be gene…

Netflix will give you (1) and (3) for a bunch of their newer stuff

A tip on Netflix - in the US, it's often nearly impossible to get foreign language dubbing or subtitles. I've found that I can watch Friends in German by using TunnelBear or another VPN to get a German IP and then downloading them offline and watching them in airplane mode.

Re: My Journey to a Better Language Learning System

#40

Language learning apps are step 5 in the ten step process of achieving programmer hubris nirvana. 1) I'm in college and I'm going to build an app to easily buy and sell books 2) Off campus housing is hard, I'm going to build an app to find roommates 3) Splitting bills with roommates is hard, I'm going to build an app for cost splitting 4) All my previous apps sucked because they weren't social, I'm going to build a s…

You alao missed dog walking app. I'm pretty sure there has been some variation on that for the past 3 years as a senior project at my university.
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