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Linux on Samsung Galaxy smartphones

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Re: Linux on Samsung Galaxy smartphones

#71

Post by ahartmetz »

simonh wrote: post #59
saagarjha wrote: post #55

> Linux on Galaxy allows the latest Samsung Galaxy smartphone users to run their preferred Linux distribution on their smartphones utilizing the same Linux kernel that powers the Android OS to ensure the best possible performance. (emphasis mine) I knew there was a catch somewhere. I seriously doubt there's a technical reason why older Galaxy models can't support running Linux as well. I don't understand why it's so…

We're all used to having desktop computers with generic x86 compatible processors and highly standardized internal interfaces and components, and compiling our software and installing it on any x86 computer we want. Smartphones with ARM SOCs aren't like that because they aren't just a CPU, they also include a crapload of additional system components. Even SOCs like the Snapdragon within a specific model will offer ma…

The Linux Device Tree infrastructure was created as a hardware description for hardware that cannot describe itself at runtime, which is mostly ARM SoCs. However that only works when hardware drivers are wired up to the device tree infrastrucure instead of being fully hardcoded. Given the usual bare minimum investment in software by most embedded hardware vendors, many/most drivers probably aren't.

Given a set of hardware with the same instruction set and drivers with full device tree support, one can now create one kernel for the whole set.

Re: Linux on Samsung Galaxy smartphones

#72

Post by Brakenshire »

simonh wrote: post #59
saagarjha wrote: post #55

> Linux on Galaxy allows the latest Samsung Galaxy smartphone users to run their preferred Linux distribution on their smartphones utilizing the same Linux kernel that powers the Android OS to ensure the best possible performance. (emphasis mine) I knew there was a catch somewhere. I seriously doubt there's a technical reason why older Galaxy models can't support running Linux as well. I don't understand why it's so…

We're all used to having desktop computers with generic x86 compatible processors and highly standardized internal interfaces and components, and compiling our software and installing it on any x86 computer we want. Smartphones with ARM SOCs aren't like that because they aren't just a CPU, they also include a crapload of additional system components. Even SOCs like the Snapdragon within a specific model will offer ma…

> the kernel needs to be tailored to the specific phone

Out of interest, would it be possible to operate an ARM SoC system like a generic x86 system, if drivers were upstreamed? Or is there too much SoC specific code?

Re: Linux on Samsung Galaxy smartphones

#74

Post by Jonnax »

saagarjha wrote: post #55

> Linux on Galaxy allows the latest Samsung Galaxy smartphone users to run their preferred Linux distribution on their smartphones utilizing the same Linux kernel that powers the Android OS to ensure the best possible performance. (emphasis mine) I knew there was a catch somewhere. I seriously doubt there's a technical reason why older Galaxy models can't support running Linux as well. I don't understand why it's so…

Can you explain how they are getting in your way? It's possible for you to unlock the bootloader on your phone to run a custom kernel?

What is the catch? That they've put development effort into supporting newer phones.

Re: Linux on Samsung Galaxy smartphones

#75

Post by TheCycoONE »

Maakuth wrote: post #27
snops wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Display port over USB-C should be this, the Samsung Galaxy S8 was the first to support it. Unfortunately, while quite a few docks are on the market, compatibility is a bit iffy, and rival USB-C alt modes like HDMI and MHL muddy the waters.

Interesting. Does this work for USB-C enabled laptops, say the latest MacBook Pros? Or does Apple only support Thunderbolt over USB-C for display connections?

Thunderbolt 3 carries DP1.2, Display Port alt mode for USB-C carries 1.4. As long as your needs can be handled by 1.2 you will be alright.

Re: Linux on Samsung Galaxy smartphones

#76

Post by Brakenshire »

reustle wrote: post #67
saagarjha wrote: post #55

> Linux on Galaxy allows the latest Samsung Galaxy smartphone users to run their preferred Linux distribution on their smartphones utilizing the same Linux kernel that powers the Android OS to ensure the best possible performance. (emphasis mine) I knew there was a catch somewhere. I seriously doubt there's a technical reason why older Galaxy models can't support running Linux as well. I don't understand why it's so…

Jeez man. They want to do something extra cool and you shit on them for not openly supporting old devices. Nobody is stopping you from rooting your device and installing whatever you want on it.

I don't think it's just that, the point is that under the current Android HW situation, phones are locked to kernel versions. Any necessary kernel updates after release are then manually back ported to that kernel version. So that means you won't be able to install any Linux system, you'll have to run that provided by Samsung, running their own custom kernel.

Although I agree we should be supportive.

Re: Linux on Samsung Galaxy smartphones

#77

Post by morganvachon »

tinco wrote: post #57
dm319 wrote: post #51

I can hear Shuttleworth swearing right now.

Swearing? Don't you mean jubilating? Isn't Ubuntu on Samsung Galaxy phones exactly what he would want?

Who said it will be Ubuntu? If this is anything like past attempts at a Linux desktop running from a mobile phone, it will be a Samsung optimized (i.e. locked down) half baked chroot monstrosity with limited tools and locked to the phone's ancient, bastardized kernel with zero security updates from launch forward.

I think it would be awesome and amazing if I was completely wrong about all of that, but I'm not holding my breath. I'd rather wait for the Pyra to release and carry two devices than torture myself with an impossible dream.

Re: Linux on Samsung Galaxy smartphones

#78

Post by ansible »

digi_owl wrote: post #62
ansible wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're going to carry a tablet and a BT keyboard, you might as well just get a light Chromebook instead. While I can run Linux locally via crouton, I mostly just SSH into my workstation and resume my screen sessions.

Depends a bit on how small you can get a chromebook. After all, the smallest tablets are in the 7-8" screen range, while most chromebooks i have seen are 10"+.

And it also depends on how small a keyboard you feel comfortable with. 11" screen size with corresponding keyboard is about as small as I can go and still type at full speed.

Re: Linux on Samsung Galaxy smartphones

#79

Post by throwaway613834 »

pjmlp wrote: post #45
throwaway613834 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Android doesn't expose a proper Linux to userspace and Google has been clapping down what we are allowed to do with the NDK since Android 6.0. Would you have a link to more details/reading on this? I wasn't aware.

Here are the official NDK APIs. https://developer.android.com/ndk/guides/stable_apis.html Here are the documentation entries related to clamping down unauthorized use of other on-device libraries or Linux Syscalls. https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2016/06/android-ch... https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2016/06/improving-... https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2017/07/seccomp-fi... https://devel…

Great, thanks!

Re: Linux on Samsung Galaxy smartphones

#80

Post by microcolonel »

Brakenshire wrote: post #76
reustle wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jeez man. They want to do something extra cool and you shit on them for not openly supporting old devices. Nobody is stopping you from rooting your device and installing whatever you want on it.

I don't think it's just that, the point is that under the current Android HW situation, phones are locked to kernel versions. Any necessary kernel updates after release are then manually back ported to that kernel version. So that means you won't be able to install any Linux system, you'll have to run that provided by Samsung, running their own custom kernel. Although I agree we should be supportive.

The kernel sources are all out there, the kernel part of the BSP is GPL by necessity. Samsung actually makes some effort to upstream a certain amount of the kernel code coming from their chipset vendors (because Samsung uses entirely different chipsets for different markets, so it's more convenient to have fewer downstream patches).

There is nothing, and I mean nothing, to stop you from forward-porting any driver or device tree to a new kernel, except for the desire to do so. It would be nice if device vendors maintained trees continually rebased on Linus's tree , but I'm sure you know they don't see the point.

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