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New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

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Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#521

Post by jstarfish »

CobrastanJorji wrote: post #258
alexanderstears wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do - I'm not sure how they licence it though or what data sources they use but I've seen that their data on high income households is the best in the business and shockingly accurate. However, I can't imagine the compliance nightmare that would exist around a process that lets HR people look up people's equifax information. If they get a full report, it could contain information about disabilities, national orig…

This makes me wonder. My employer has some customer data. We're very careful about not just letting any random employee access it without careful permission, auditing, logging, etc. Customer privacy is important to us. At Equifax, though, information about random people isn't customer data. It's the product. They give it to anyone who asks for money. Do they have any motivation to say J random employee can't just loo…

> Do they have any motivation to say J random employee can't just look up everybody's data?

It violates FCRA at the very least.

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#522

Post by icelancer »

conanbatt wrote: post #461
icelancer wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>But have you thought about why you feel this way? Yes. I don't want to increase my attractiveness regarding a house robbery, as I live well below my means in a developing neighborhood, amongst other reasons. I very much understand the concept of leverage and have no problems privately discussing my salary amongst groups that I trust. That doesn't include the entire Internet.

There is definitely an increased risk of lawsuits or robbery. However it has to be weigh in to the expectancy of a wage increase. You have already decided to not pay for extra security by being in a poorer neihborhood, so we know safety is negotiable. What is that price to you? What if wage transparency increased your salary 10%?

>>You have already decided to not pay for extra security by being in a poorer neihborhood

I mean, that's not really true. I live in a poor(er) neighborhood but have cameras, an alarm, and home defense weapons. I still don't want my house being broken into.

>>What if wage transparency increased your salary 10%?

As my other comments (or my bio) will illustrate, these examples aren't too good. I am the founder of a small business who makes my wage public to my employees and offered to make their wages public to everyone, which was overwhelmingly voted down, even when I told them about the benefits.

People value their privacy in this country. It would be a mistake to assume that everyone is stupid for doing so.

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#523

Post by trampypizza »

the_watcher wrote: post #478
pmoriarty wrote: post #4

This is a ban on employers -- afaik, recruiters can still ask (and many probably will ask). But, IANAL. (Correction: It looks like recruiters fall under this prohibition too, if they are acting as agents of the employer.) I personally never answer questions about my previous salary or my expected salary. When HR has given me forms to fill out that have questions about either I just leave them blank, and they've never…

> In the US it's frowned upon, but I hear it's quite common in Europe. It's frowned upon by (most, not all) employers, but they are legally prohibited from banning sharing of employee salaries (as long as you are sharing your own information, not others). The culture of not sharing salary between employees is more an artifact of American culture to limit discussion of politics, religion, and money to those you are cl…

> they are legally prohibited from banning sharing of employee salaries (as long as you are sharing your own information, not others)

Do you have a source for this?

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#524

Post by biafra »

civilian wrote: post #6
chollida1 wrote: post #3

> The goal is to narrow the gender wage gap. If a woman is paid less than a man doing the same job and a new employer bases her pay on her prior salary, gender discrimination can be perpetuated, the bill’s backers say. Hmm, I'd never thought about that angle,but I guess it makes sense. No word on if they are allowed to use Equifax, etc to pull salary data from? EDIT: looking at the bill it looks like querying Equifax…

Equifax has salary data? I hadn't heard that. //edit: Well shit, TIL: https://krebsonsecurity.com/2017/10/equifax-breach-fallout-y...

That is a total nightmare. How are employers allowed to give that kind of information to Equifax? I do not get why Americans allow this.

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#525

Post by timthelion »

gehwartzen wrote: post #446
alexanderstears wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do - I'm not sure how they licence it though or what data sources they use but I've seen that their data on high income households is the best in the business and shockingly accurate. However, I can't imagine the compliance nightmare that would exist around a process that lets HR people look up people's equifax information. If they get a full report, it could contain information about disabilities, national orig…

They (The work Number/Equifax) don't license it at all. Company's pay for the privilege in fact. It's sold as outsourcing the "costly" HR task of providing salary data themselves. Other companys or individuals then pay Equifax $35 to make a single enquiry or subscribe at a monthly rate. Users include 82% of all F500 companies and they have 225 employment records. My company uses it :( http://redtape.nbcnews.com/_news…

Can I use it to find out what my co-workers make and negotiate a better salary,

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#526

Post by kamaal »

_4570 wrote: post #520
kamaal wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In India, your resume qualifies for interview only if you disclose your previous salary. I don't think its mandated by law, but thats's how the system works anyway.

I've been through 2 employers and working at my third. I've never disclosed my salary pre-interview. All three jobs at Bangalore, India. So no, that's not how the system works.

That is absolutely how it works.

Unless you disclose your prior CTC no one will call you for your interview.

Start ups are a different case.

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#527

Post by atomical »

timthelion wrote: post #525
gehwartzen wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They (The work Number/Equifax) don't license it at all. Company's pay for the privilege in fact. It's sold as outsourcing the "costly" HR task of providing salary data themselves. Other companys or individuals then pay Equifax $35 to make a single enquiry or subscribe at a monthly rate. Users include 82% of all F500 companies and they have 225 employment records. My company uses it :( http://redtape.nbcnews.com/_news…

Can I use it to find out what my co-workers make and negotiate a better salary,

Wouldn't you need their social security number?

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#528

Post by morgante »

sefpfi12 wrote: post #35

I don't think this is a right way to go about trying to narrow the gender wage gap. Half of the reason we have one (a wage gap) is because it's taboo in America to reveal how much you get paid with your co-workers. It makes no sense to me why that is the case, all it does it allow the company to screw you over more. The solutions should be to have each company come up with there own publicly available pay scale that…

And that's how you end up with a system which very few top performers want to work under.

I positively shudder at the thought of a system which coupled my compensation to years of experience. That is in no way a reliable gauge of ability and smart companies know that.

Nor do I want my coworkers knowing what I make. That fosters an atmosphere of competition where anyone who makes less than me is jealous.

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#529

Post by tonyg »

trampypizza wrote: post #523
the_watcher wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the US it's frowned upon, but I hear it's quite common in Europe. It's frowned upon by (most, not all) employers, but they are legally prohibited from banning sharing of employee salaries (as long as you are sharing your own information, not others). The culture of not sharing salary between employees is more an artifact of American culture to limit discussion of politics, religion, and money to those you are cl…

> they are legally prohibited from banning sharing of employee salaries (as long as you are sharing your own information, not others) Do you have a source for this?

https://www.dol.gov/wb/media/pay_secrecy.pdf is a good summary, starting with discussion of the federal situation and then quoting state law

here's the executive order mentioned at the beginning of the linked PDF: https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/2014/0...

here's NPR on the topic: http://www.npr.org/2014/04/13/301989789/pay-secrecy-policies...

here's the atlantic on the topic: https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/07/when-th...

From the Atlantic article: Gag rules are a "widespread, illegal problem that the law has failed to address for decades. Gag rules violate a fundamental labor right and allow for discriminatory pay schemes."

---

In the UK, apparently the situation is similar. From http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1811 , "The Equality Act 2010 makes it unlawful to prevent employees from having discussions to establish if there are differences in pay. However, an employer can require their employees to keep pay rates confidential from people outside of the workplace."

here is the paragraph of UK law referred to: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/77

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