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New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

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Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#491
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

are you sure you are replying to the correct comment. Nothing you wrote seems to have anything to do with what I posted:)

Gargoyle is responding to "No word on if they are allowed to use Equifax, etc to pull salary data from?"

This is so dumb. Employers can research candidate history without any chance of getting caught, and it's an obvious goal of most ethical (1st amendment respecting) hackers to make sure it stays that way.

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#492
This seems like a big change. I am always curious about what the current state of the art is for modelling second order effects of such a big change. Would appreciate any insights from people who have an insight into decision making at this level (something that affects millions of people in a real and meaningful way).

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#493
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recruiters need to find candidates for a given range. Considering the breath of paygrades for even similar experience level jobs across the tech sector it’s not that surprising. If a company looks for some one for say 100-120K you are wasting your time and the recruiters time if you won’t take any offers below 180. Whilst you might find an employer who’ll be willing and able to go 5-10% over the max it’s not likely t…

But then why not just post the salary range? The truth is, employers are willing to pay $180k, but if someone would work for $110k[1], they'd rather find that out in advance. Btw, I've had a recruiter from GooglAmaFaceSoft tell me in advance the max may for a position. [1] I consider this to be a bad idea. An employee who won't negotiate a higher salary will often instead test his or her market value by interviewing…

> The truth is, employers are willing to pay $180k, but if someone would work for $110k[1], they'd rather find that out in advance.

That is exactly why I refuse to negotiate over compensation: I don't want to work with people who have that kind of cheapskate attitude. If they want me, they can express that by making a good offer. If the offer is low, none of the possible reasons are good for me. Why waste time haggling? Better to just move on.

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"... disabilities, national origin, ethnicity, religion, and enough information to construct knowledge about sexual orientation." Don't employers already get most of that from doing in person interviews? Even through phone screens you can gather most of that information.

In the US, those are protected categories about which a prospective employer may not inquire. This point was explicitly called out and repeatedly reiterated in the training I received a few years back about how to participate in an interview from that side of the table. Some of that information can be obvious, as in the case of visible disability and occasionally ethnicity. But it's not permissible to inquire in any…

They can ask, legally. Maybe it would be used as evidence they wanted to discriminate but it's not a violation of the law simply to ask.

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#495
post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except for the fact that male and female pay for the same job, and experience level are statistically the same and there is no actual pay gap. The $0.79 on the $1 shit has been debunked a million times yet is still persists for some reason. The last good study I read showed a gap of something like 5% which was in the statistical margin and was largely accounted for by negotiation tactics. For an anecdote I (a male) e…

> The $0.79 on the $1 shit has been debunked a million times yet is still persists for some reason. It persists because it's a real average. And uh, it's not the case that the pay gap has been disproven in many industries.

Yes, it's a real average that proves that a female teacher makes less than a male mechanical engineer. How does that help anyone, other than pushing a false narrative?

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#496
post #424
post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>you generally have to give your income. Well, you certainly don't have to give your "real" income. Aspirational income is fine.

Wouldn't applying for credit based on "aspirational" finances be fraud?

Not a lawyer, but for major credit lines lenders would generally want to see a few pay stubs and even tax returns, so seems like they’re using the data from the application form as a ballpark figure anyways.

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#497
post #374
post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This makes the law seem even more ridiculous to me. Why is it more ridiculous? We already have laws against discrimination based on gender. If the issue isn't being solved, while being hands off, it seems natural to try something different. > It feels like they treating us like children incapable of tying our own shoes or something Well it does seem employers are incapable of eliminating the gender wage gap so perh…

Except for the fact that male and female pay for the same job, and experience level are statistically the same and there is no actual pay gap. The $0.79 on the $1 shit has been debunked a million times yet is still persists for some reason. The last good study I read showed a gap of something like 5% which was in the statistical margin and was largely accounted for by negotiation tactics. For an anecdote I (a male) e…

> Except for the fact that male and female pay for the same job, and experience level are statistically the same and there is no actual pay gap.

Sure, but if women have a harder time getting promoted then they also have a harder time getting the same job and experience. Thus, even if women are being paid the same when they have the same job and experience, the discrimination still exists and they are still as a group prone to being paid less. Perhaps we should name it something more appropriate than wage gap though since the nuance is lost.

http://www.businessinsider.com/women-are-less-likely-to-get-...

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moving jobs is the best way to get a large pay increase, especially if you're underpaid in your current job. Once you tell them how much you currently make, you've screwed yourself. This is a negotiating tactic used by employers to know how much they'll set as their upper bound for pay. Your employer may have strict pay bounds set, but a lot of places don't. The pay can vary highly between candidates, especially if t…

> Once you tell them how much you currently make, you've screwed yourself. This is the truth. When I finished my CS degree and started looking for work, I had a recruiter tell me I shouldn't expect any pay over my previous job, and since my previous job was a software testing internship for $12.75/hr, I shouldn't expect more than $15/hr or so. I said "Yeah, no. I'm not taking a software engineering job for barely ove…

The best response to 'here's a penny more than you were making' is multiple offers.

The second best response is 'your offer is better, but inspires zero loyalty. If you want me to stay for longer than it takes for your competitors to get back to me with an offer, you'll improve that offer.'

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The $0.79 on the $1 shit has been debunked a million times yet is still persists for some reason. It persists because it's a real average. And uh, it's not the case that the pay gap has been disproven in many industries.

Yes, it's a real average that proves that a female teacher makes less than a male mechanical engineer. How does that help anyone, other than pushing a false narrative?

Well, it might tell us the shape of discrimination is less overt and more structural. Why exactly was it that out of my CS graduating class of 100 there was 1 woman?
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