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Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

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Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#261

Post by ryandrake »

api wrote: post #224
guelo wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really just an accident of history, not intentional on Apple's part, that Macs became popular with developers. In an alternate universe Jobs isn't kicked out of Apple, doesn't develop NeXT based on Unix, and Apple continues merrily snubbing developers and not accidentally attracting them the way they did. In this alternate universe I believe more energy and funding would have been directed at Linux and it would…

Agreed. What do you think is the best Linux desktop distro these days? For hardware it seems like the higher-end Dells are the winners. I have a co-worker with one (runs Windows) and the hardware is excellent. He has some issues with the TPM and firmware but it seems like stuff that would not be a big problem in Linux.

I got a cheezy second hand Lenovo Y40 from Craigslist for about $200 and put Debian on it. Not even close to top of the line but it works great for my development needs.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#262

Post by ghostly_s »

DeRock wrote: post #26
dillondoyle wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My biggest beaf with the TouchBar: volume takes two clicks! Instead of an up down and mute button, I get mute and volume which then opens a slider to the left of the click. So instead of just clicking once to lower volume I have to click, move my finger and slide. It would be so easy to allow custom button to add back on (and maybe there is that I haven't been able to find?) I also accidentally 'touch my pinky finger…

A couple things: you don’t have to click volume and then move to the slider, you can just touch the volume button and begin sliding immediately and it will adjust relative to how you slide. Also, if you go into System Preferences—>Keyboard, you can customize the keys, including adding a dedicated mute button.

> you don’t have to click volume and then move to the slider, you can just touch the volume button and begin sliding immediately

Woooow, this is a revelation. Thank you!

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#263

Post by tomxor »

tomxor wrote: post #175
dillondoyle wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My biggest beaf with the TouchBar: volume takes two clicks! Instead of an up down and mute button, I get mute and volume which then opens a slider to the left of the click. So instead of just clicking once to lower volume I have to click, move my finger and slide. It would be so easy to allow custom button to add back on (and maybe there is that I haven't been able to find?) I also accidentally 'touch my pinky finger…

>Instead of an up down and mute button, I get mute and volume which then opens a slider to the left of the click. So instead of just clicking once to lower volume I have to click, move my finger and slide. Hah, You couldn't make this stuff up... GUIs were borne out of a hatred of highly context based keyboard behaviour (VI, Xerox Parc), now Apple go full circle and revert to context hell by combining a keyboard with…

aaaaaandd as usual the inevitable fan boy down votes ensue.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#264

Post by kamaal »

kagamine wrote: post #42
DeRock wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A couple things: you don’t have to click volume and then move to the slider, you can just touch the volume button and begin sliding immediately and it will adjust relative to how you slide. Also, if you go into System Preferences—>Keyboard, you can customize the keys, including adding a dedicated mute button.

When users have to fiddle with settings to do the things they could do before without fiddling, what have you achieved? Apple used to be the UX good guys, now they are the devil in disguise.

>>Apple used to be the UX good guys

Apple had one person who was good at UX. And that guy is dead for years now. His product pipeline can't be milked further to make more money.

From here onwards its just your usual managers running the show.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#265

Post by kamaal »

JSONwebtoken wrote: post #40
kn0where wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A twist on the old if-a-tree-falls-in-the-forest riddle: If a hidden gesture exists but nobody knows it, does it really exist?

How is it a hidden gesture? It's literally shown in every marketing video and advertisement since demo day.

>>It's literally shown in every marketing video and advertisement since demo day.

The whole point of a good UI is you shouldn't be reading a manual and watching videos to do X, Y and Z.

Apple used to be a pioneer at things like this.

Sad things have come down to this.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#266

Post by kalleboo »

FabHK wrote: post #102
kalleboo wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No right now in the top left corner of my touchbar is an (X) key, the esc key is to the right of it.

My understanding is that even though by default there is some (inexplicable) space left of the escape key on the touchbar, that space still functions as the escape key.

In my case I actually had a completely separate, non-esc button to the left of esc. Screenshot: https://i.imgur.com/InvBvqa.png

I'm not sure exactly when it happens, but I think it happens when you have some background context open on the touchbar (like some app's music controls). The X dismisses the bar you have open and then you get esc back. Often there's no esc at all and just the X.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#267

Post by Zanni »

ramses0 wrote: post #254
akvadrako wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Um, yes. Typing is a skill; they even have classes in it. You certainly should never be pressing hard enough to cause pain.

False. We have just demonstrated that two different keyboards have two completely different responses to the same level of force. If Apple replaced keyboard keytops with sandpaper and people complained of bleeding, raw fingers, would you still say that it's the user's fault for "typing too hard"? Or maybe, just maybe... that they screwed up a miniaturization attempt.

It's possible for it to be a hardware design error and user error. Or just an impedance mismatch between a particular piece of hardware and a particular user.

I agree that the new Macbook keyboards aren't for everyone. Some people, like my girlfriend take to them right away. Others will never adjust. And that's fine. You don't like it? Don't use it. Return it for something else.

But I think there's a large middle ground of people who could happily use the new keyboards by adjusting their typing style. Doesn't mean they were typing wrong before. But if, like me, they're coming from heavy mechanical keyboards, they will need to adjust their style to be comfortable with Apple's keyboards.

People have experience similar challenges transitioning between manual and electric typewriters. And between pianos and MIDI keyboards with unweighted keys.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#268

Post by kagamine »

tasuki wrote: post #209
kagamine wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ctrl + [ won't work on any non-English keyboard as the square parenthesis are hidden behind a modifier already. This is a constant problem with software, and now hardware, manufacturers that they assume everyone in the whole wide world is using a US keyboard. Yes, you can remap and fiddle to make it work but that isn't the point, the point is to pay the same price, sometimes more than Americans and get the same value…

Interesting that you use your native keyboard for programming. I'm Czech, all the Czech programmers I know use English layout for programming.

Here in Norway I have never once seen a non-Scandinavian layout keyboard. Not once. As I'm from the UK I have considered getting a UK or US keyboard for coding at home, but at work it isn't an option, mostly because we all have standard equipment and because ø,æ & å.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#269

Post by Corrado »

suresk wrote: post #99
threeseed wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Use BetterTouchTool for the Touch Bar. It allows you to customise it for each application and assign your own buttons based on menu items, scripts etc. For development it is amazing. I have dedicated buttons for Build, Run, Debug, Stop, Step Into and Step Over. For terminal I can adjust terminal profiles with one button. Also blame Intel more than Apple for performance issues.

Fair point, re: Intel. I will have to check out that tool, sounds like it could be useful. I guess, though, this highlights part of why it feels so gimmicky. I, like a lot of people using MacBook Pros, spend about 60% of my time on my work laptop docked with external monitors, keyboard, and mouse. Since there are no external keyboards with a TouchBar available, I now have two very different experiences when I'm docke…

I've always assumed that if Apple was really serious about the TouchBar they would have created an external keyboard with it.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#270

Post by JoshMnem »

mrgoldenbrown wrote: post #136
JoshMnem wrote: post #119

Try ThinkPad + Linux. Amazing environment for programming, $1,000+ cheaper than MBP, nice keyboards, better specs for the price, including several years of at-home next-day repair service.

I've found the "cheaper" part is situational. When I bought my Macbook Air, the comparable Thinkpad (X1 Carbon) was the same price, when I specced them the same.

I'm not sure about the X1. The T460 was much cheaper than a MBP with significantly better support and specs (except for the screen, which didn't matter to me, since I don't edit photos or video seriously).
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