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New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

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Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#391

Post by softwarefounder »

cracell wrote: post #114
geebee wrote: post #60

I'd prefer to see this go in the other direction and make all salary information public. Right now, employers have far more information than employees, and I don't think this law will do much to change that. To me, it's similar to real estate - imagine if only sellers had access to the database of exactly what every house sold for and when, but buyers had to go with unsubstantiated, scattered rumors. Or vise versa. T…

No thank you. My salary is private. I do not want my family and friends to know how much I make. I also have never told a potential employer my salary. I believe it stopped things from going on to the interview stage but the way they took my refusal made me assume they paid under market rate.

"No thank you...My salary is private."

Only on HN, would the same crowd that ferociously defends data privacy, decide to play devil's advocate on this comment.

(Regarding the thread under the parent post)

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#392

Post by astura »

civilian wrote: post #6
chollida1 wrote: post #3

> The goal is to narrow the gender wage gap. If a woman is paid less than a man doing the same job and a new employer bases her pay on her prior salary, gender discrimination can be perpetuated, the bill’s backers say. Hmm, I'd never thought about that angle,but I guess it makes sense. No word on if they are allowed to use Equifax, etc to pull salary data from? EDIT: looking at the bill it looks like querying Equifax…

Equifax has salary data? I hadn't heard that. //edit: Well shit, TIL: https://krebsonsecurity.com/2017/10/equifax-breach-fallout-y...

So do LexusNexis and probably a handful of other data brokers.

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#393

Post by CodeWriter23 »

ryandrake wrote: post #252
CodeWriter23 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any prospective employee who asks me is going to get an answer that is 20% lower than the other job description they were eligible for prior to asking.

Would you be OK with the prospective employee quoting you a salary 20% above what he's currently making if you asked?

Sure. I can ask for salary history once the individual is no longer an applicant and if I can’t confirm they told the truth, I can fire them on the spot without cause. California is an at will employment state.

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#394

Post by SiVal »

rifung wrote: post #208
TearsInTheRain wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The goal is to narrow the gender wage gap. This makes the law seem even more ridiculous to me. Do we really need the government stepping into the hiring process like this and micromanaging? It feels like they treating us like children incapable of tying our own shoes or something

> This makes the law seem even more ridiculous to me. Why is it more ridiculous? We already have laws against discrimination based on gender. If the issue isn't being solved, while being hands off, it seems natural to try something different. > It feels like they treating us like children incapable of tying our own shoes or something Well it does seem employers are incapable of eliminating the gender wage gap so perh…

The next step I'd like to see is for them to prohibit asking where you went to college. You still need to show credentials, but if you went to an accredited 4-year institution and got a BS in, say, chemistry, you would say you had an accredited BS in chemistry, and there would be a gov't database against which that claim could be checked. Someone who couldn't afford the tuition at a ritzy private school but still completed the same requirements for a BS in chemistry from an accredited state school would have the same access to jobs requiring an accredited BS in chemistry.

The next step after that would be for accreditation to be made more flexible, accommodating combinations of work-study, self-study, community college, private lab classes, and standardized testing to qualify a person for an accredited degree without having attended a traditional university at all.

Competition for admission to expensive, elite schools that apparently don't teach any better but simply pick the applicants who have already made themselves elite and charge them exorbitant fees to grant a brand-name credential which then boosts the value of the brand itself is distorting actual EDUCATION beyond all recognition.

The sooner employers have to judge applicant quality by means other than perceived eliteness of their school, the more diverse the paths to employment success can become, which ought to be a goal of both the left and the right politically.

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#395

Post by CaptSpify »

cisanti wrote: post #368
s73ver_ wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see a problem with it. I never saw the reason why any employer needed to know what someone was paid before. A job is worth around $X to your company to be performed. What I was paid in my previous job has absolutely no bearing on that.

But you can always use it to your leverage too, I have lied about my previous salary before and it worked out great.

Is there any reason that you can't continue to do that?

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#396

Post by anigbrowl »

flukus wrote: post #369
smallworld99 wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN has zero understanding of the thoughts and motivations of robbers..

It's hilarious really. A home robber isn't going to download your salary history prior to robbing your house, chances are a lot of the money has gone into big heavy things that they aren't after anyway. Thieve's are opportunists, they only question they ask is "how easily can I get into that house without getting caught?".

I'm gonna split the difference on that - casual thieves are attracted to stuff, organized thieves do some research. I know about a pattern of robberies of film crews (an industry I used to work in) in my area - these can be profitable because camera gear in particular is quite expensive so a small well-equipped film crew is standing on the street with $10-20k worth of poorly-secured gear, which they probably don't care about losing because it's insured. The modus operandi is consistent enough that I'm fairly sure the thieves are working from city-issued permits.

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#397

Post by sib »

jdavis703 wrote: post #292
everdev wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All Americans have a right to privacy. Their reason for privacy doesn't matter and doesn't need to make sense to you. Compensation is an important conversation to make sure a job is a win/win. I think "What would you like to be paid?" is the most relevant question anyway.

The price of your house is public, the value of your car is public, and most people can roughly guess what your salary is based on your job title, geography and experience level.

Only in certain (US) states are house prices public information.

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#398

Post by ThrustVectoring »

icelancer wrote: post #164
Sangermaine wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>No thank you. >My salary is private. I do not want my family and friends to know how much I make. But have you thought about why you feel this way? I assume you are American, as am I, and so I understand we've been socialized by our culture to feel this way, but it really makes no sense. It's just a way to harm workers by keeping us from seeing when we're being screwed. I'd even go so far as to wager that this entir…

>>But have you thought about why you feel this way? Yes. I don't want to increase my attractiveness regarding a house robbery, as I live well below my means in a developing neighborhood, amongst other reasons. I very much understand the concept of leverage and have no problems privately discussing my salary amongst groups that I trust. That doesn't include the entire Internet.

A lawsuit is a bigger risk than a house robbery, IMO. A big reason why people don't get sued is because they aren't a defendant you can get a lot of money out of. Publicly showing off a top 2% salary or asset level will change that.

Like, if you own your house outright, it's often worthwhile to get a HELOC without ever drawing from it. That way, when an attorney tries to figure out if you're worth suing, it doesn't look like you have six figures worth of housing equity to go after.

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#399

Post by astura »

alexanderstears wrote: post #18
civilian wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Equifax has salary data? I hadn't heard that. //edit: Well shit, TIL: https://krebsonsecurity.com/2017/10/equifax-breach-fallout-y...

They do - I'm not sure how they licence it though or what data sources they use but I've seen that their data on high income households is the best in the business and shockingly accurate. However, I can't imagine the compliance nightmare that would exist around a process that lets HR people look up people's equifax information. If they get a full report, it could contain information about disabilities, national orig…

>what data sources they use

Usually the data is reported by the employer themselves.

You can query the employment data without querying the full Equifax report.

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#400

Post by funkjunky »

geebee wrote: post #60

I'd prefer to see this go in the other direction and make all salary information public. Right now, employers have far more information than employees, and I don't think this law will do much to change that. To me, it's similar to real estate - imagine if only sellers had access to the database of exactly what every house sold for and when, but buyers had to go with unsubstantiated, scattered rumors. Or vise versa. T…

Um last I checked this same law also requires employers to provide the salary range for the position if requested.
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