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Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

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Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#251

Post by dillondoyle »

dillondoyle wrote: post #250
DeRock wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A couple things: you don’t have to click volume and then move to the slider, you can just touch the volume button and begin sliding immediately and it will adjust relative to how you slide. Also, if you go into System Preferences—>Keyboard, you can customize the keys, including adding a dedicated mute button.

Maybe I'm missing it or my os is not up to date? These are the settings I get, I only see mute and single volume button: https://imgur.com/a/CIgz3

Nevermind comment below showed where to find it, you have to change Touch Bar shows to expanded - which having had this computer for like a year I never found. I'm probably not the most advanced, especially compared to HN users who live in vim like many people here, but still I make a living on my computer and use it 12+ hours a day - feels kind of silly that I'm just now figuring that out (thanks to someone explaining it).

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#252

Post by dillondoyle »

neomantra wrote: post #201
cytzol wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been wanting to do this for ages, but I can only find the volume slider! Could you tell me how to put Volume Up and Down buttons on there please?

It's hidden weirdly.... go to "Keyboard" prefs pane and "Keyboard" tab (initial one shown when you bring it up. At "Touch Bar shows".... change that from "App Controls with Control Strip" to "Expanded Control Strip". Then you will see the individual buttons. You can then further "Customize Control Strip..." and you will now see more buttons. But you will also loose "App Control". Of course, why can't those specific b…

Savior! Thanks. I feel really dumb for not knowing about this, but my ego is going to blame Apple. Just in general feels rushed all over for many many things - this is (was) just my personal biggest gripe!

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#253

Post by Yetanfou »

ashark wrote: post #189
carlivar wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is the OS. Apple hasn't entirely screwed up macOS yet (give them time). It is still better than Windows and Linux in my opinion. The hardware decline brings them closer to even with other laptops, all things considered, but I suspect many people prefer macOS enough to still stomach the bad hardware.

Plus the trackpad. Everyone's still playing catch-up on that. Mac laptops are the only ones I've ever used for which I don't halt all work immediately until I can find a mouse, if I'm doing something that'll take more than ~5min. This makes it the only line of laptops I know that are actually usable as self-contained devices (that is, for their intended purpose)

Don't you think you're going to far when you "halt all work immediately until [you] can find a mouse" when using anything but an Apple-branded device? That actually sounds like the human-interface-device equivalent of the audiophile attitude.

I mostly use Thinkpads which are known for having good keyboards. While I do prefer the keyboards on these machines over those on the others spread around the place I don't "halt all work until I find an IBM M1" when dealing with other machines, not even when dealing with those modern chiclet-inspired monstrosities. I might grumble a bit, miss a key here and there and wonder what the designers were thinking but those keyboards do get the job done. The same goes for touchpads, some are better than others but most of them work.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#254

Post by ramses0 »

akvadrako wrote: post #159
FabHK wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You're typing it wrong"

Um, yes. Typing is a skill; they even have classes in it. You certainly should never be pressing hard enough to cause pain.

False. We have just demonstrated that two different keyboards have two completely different responses to the same level of force.

If Apple replaced keyboard keytops with sandpaper and people complained of bleeding, raw fingers, would you still say that it's the user's fault for "typing too hard"?

Or maybe, just maybe... that they screwed up a miniaturization attempt.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#255

Post by ramses0 »

Yetanfou wrote: post #253
ashark wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plus the trackpad. Everyone's still playing catch-up on that. Mac laptops are the only ones I've ever used for which I don't halt all work immediately until I can find a mouse, if I'm doing something that'll take more than ~5min. This makes it the only line of laptops I know that are actually usable as self-contained devices (that is, for their intended purpose)

Don't you think you're going to far when you "halt all work immediately until [you] can find a mouse" when using anything but an Apple-branded device? That actually sounds like the human-interface-device equivalent of the audiophile attitude. I mostly use Thinkpads which are known for having good keyboards. While I do prefer the keyboards on these machines over those on the others spread around the place I don't "hal…

Glass touchpad with multi-touch is infinitely better than synaptics plastic trash with "somewhere on the right side we'll pretend there's a scroll bar".

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#256

Post by wingworks »

micaksica wrote: post #44
saurik wrote: post #21

Based on the title I assumed that this person was going to be complaining about joint damage due to the low key travel. This keyboard on my 12" MacBook is so bad that between having to get the top case replaced to fix broken keys (when as stated in the article, careful blowing didn't work and trying to replace the keys caused them to break) and my fingers feeing like they have aged many years from the poor ergonomics…

Your story resonated with me because I had the same experiences with a 12” MacBook. While I can’t really use you as an example, since you kind of need a Mac for a lot of the work you do specifically, I’ve heard the same complaints about Apple hardware from other long-time Mac users that don’t actually need to have a Mac. I am curious how many of those of us that don’t need macOS day to day have voted with their walle…

That's the thing, even if I wanted to there is nowhere to go to but Apple, the closest I've seen is a Dell XPS or one of the MS Surface models, but they seem to have there own problems, not to mention I heavily use the Mac trackpad and the gestures, which I've yet to see so well done on a Windows laptop :(

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#257

Post by wingworks »

indemnity wrote: post #71
rothbardrand wrote: post #46

I have the 2016 MBP, and have been using it extensively in third world conditions this year. The keyboard has been so good that I didn't even notice it. What I do notice is having to limit myself to the 15 inch display vs the two 40" 4k displays I have at home. The machine supports four, and I would buy a third 4k display (This time UHD) if I could figure out a desk arrangement that supports all three and still keep…

Yep, I have the 2013 15” rMBP and the 2016 15” rMBP. Much prefer the keyboard on the 2016 model. Just two gripes: - keyboard is noisy as hell, very noticeable in conference calls - trackpad is way too big, it’s hard to find a resting position. six months in i still accidentally touch it when not meaning to.

Yeah, I like the touchbar, but yeah was a little disappointed in how loud the keyboard and even the trackpad, coming from a 2015 MBP.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#259

Post by Yetanfou »

ramses0 wrote: post #255
Yetanfou wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't you think you're going to far when you "halt all work immediately until [you] can find a mouse" when using anything but an Apple-branded device? That actually sounds like the human-interface-device equivalent of the audiophile attitude. I mostly use Thinkpads which are known for having good keyboards. While I do prefer the keyboards on these machines over those on the others spread around the place I don't "hal…

Glass touchpad with multi-touch is infinitely better than synaptics plastic trash with "somewhere on the right side we'll pretend there's a scroll bar".

Nearly all touchpads support multi-touch, this includes Synaptics "plastic trash". You just need to enable things like two-finger scroll and three-finger-click (etc). If you're using an older version of Windows you might need to update the driver, those who use Linux generally get this out of the "box" and can just enable the required options.

Having both two-finger-scroll and side-scroll enabled is possible and quite handy for those occasions you can't use or don't feel like using two fingers, e.g. when you're holding a hot soldering iron in one hand and a collection of parts in the other - just scroll using a knuckle.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#260

Post by bitexploder »

lallysingh wrote: post #223
bitexploder wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't give them ideas. Just... don't. The all new Electro Tactile Keyboard. It is the most amazing typing experience you have ever had on a keyboard. 3 years later everyone is wandering around with claws for hands, having forgotten what real keyboards do for human to computer interaction.

Ahem, this isn't a new idea for them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FingerWorks

Of course. If I think of it some one else did 10 years ago ;)
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