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75% decline over 27 years in total flying insect biomass in protected areas

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Re: 75% decline over 27 years in total flying insect biomass in protected areas

#31

Post by paganel »

stonewhite wrote: post #15

Just today we were discussing how there was almost zero insects splatters on the windshield or bonnet after an intercity travel. I remember it would get very dirty, at least almost always needed a wash.

> zero insects splatters on the windshield or bonnet after an intercity travel.

Still happens for me in Romania. In fact, I've just noticed it today after an 8-hour trip in my car through half of the country. Could be caused by the fact that we're not that "advanced" when it comes to use of insecticides.

Re: 75% decline over 27 years in total flying insect biomass in protected areas

#32

Post by anvandare »

wazoox wrote: post #9

My feeling: brace for systemic collapse.

I sometimes wonder what people were thinking or doing, in the days before a calamity. In Pompeii, in Lisbon, in Hiroshima, ... Unaware of what was about to happen to them. Just living their daily lives. I also sometimes wonder if future people will have reason to think of us in a similar way, when I hear of news like this, or the clathrate gun hypothesis.

Re: 75% decline over 27 years in total flying insect biomass in protected areas

#33

Post by wlesieutre »

aklemm wrote: post #4

Presumably this is similar here in the U.S.? In the 80's and 90's the fronts of our cars would get so encrusted with mashed bugs that it would take real scrubbing to get them off. I haven't had to do that in many years.

Article on the same topic from April referred to this as the "windshield phenomenon," you're definitely not the only one noticing it. I wasn't driving in the 80's and 90's, but I remember having a lot more bugs on the windshield as a passenger on family roadtrips.

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/05/where-have-all-insect...

Previous HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14323533

Re: 75% decline over 27 years in total flying insect biomass in protected areas

#34

Post by coliveira »

avip wrote: post #27
knodi wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This kind of the same thing I'm seeing with firefly in Michigan. In the summer time when I first moved to MI over 30 years ago I use to see them everywhere in large amounts. This year they're back but last 3 years I didn't see them at all. As long as there are climate change deniers a.k.a Trump supports we're all in a lot of trouble, even humans.

I wouldn't jump into blaming the climate. We've shifted many parts of a very complex system in the last 50+ years. I'd put monoculture and pesticides higher on my list of suspects.

One of our problems is the idea that a single cause is responsible for these things. It is not just pesticides or CO2 or some other single change. It is the combination of those changes (even the small ones) that is driving this huge environmental problem. The only way to get out of this is starting to think of the environment is a complex system that needs to be preserved, not trying to find a single culprit that we can manipulate.

Re: 75% decline over 27 years in total flying insect biomass in protected areas

#35

Post by GlenTheMachine »

avip wrote: post #27
knodi wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This kind of the same thing I'm seeing with firefly in Michigan. In the summer time when I first moved to MI over 30 years ago I use to see them everywhere in large amounts. This year they're back but last 3 years I didn't see them at all. As long as there are climate change deniers a.k.a Trump supports we're all in a lot of trouble, even humans.

I wouldn't jump into blaming the climate. We've shifted many parts of a very complex system in the last 50+ years. I'd put monoculture and pesticides higher on my list of suspects.

As an anecdotal data point, I'm trying to establish a robust, poly-culture, mostly chemical-free agricultural system on my hobby farm. We do seem to get more flying insects on my place than our neighbors, all of whom have grass lawns. Critters of all kinds, in fact - lots of frogs and toads as well, and box turtles. Obviously I haven't done a scientific study, but we see butterflies, lighting bugs, and so on; not as many as I saw growing up but they are there in some numbers.

If you look around suburbia, there really isn't much ecological space for anything to grow unless it can survive on grass. Even in a lot of rural areas, with the advent of heavy-chemical farming and bigger and bigger monocultures, we're taking a lot of living space away from mother nature.

Re: 75% decline over 27 years in total flying insect biomass in protected areas

#36

Post by MrBuddyCasino »

avip wrote: post #3

Yes. This is a case of hard data confirming what we already know. As in - few types of butterflies I used to like, and see yearly as a kid - are gone. I see them now once in 5 years, if lucky. I bring my kids to look because it's a first time for them. On the other hand, some types of beetles, ants, flies, mosquitoes, even wasps - are just new. They were not here 20-30 years ago. Now, what are the consequences of all…

This is making the headlines in Germany right now:

http://www.zeit.de/wissen/umwelt/2017-10/insektensterben-flu...

http://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/natur/insekten-in-deutsch...

http://www.sueddeutsche.de/wissen/insektensterben-dramatisch...

Der Spiegel discusses issues in the methodology of the data collection. The intervals over the years weren't uniform, data was collected by volunteers/hobbyists and they did not measure the dry mass weight. There are differing opinions whether or not those issues have relevance.

SZ gives some details on suspected causes. Neither climate change (warmer weather should yield more insects, not less) nor changes in plant diversity can explain the observed effects alone. Main suspects:

- agricultural fertilizers, especially nitrogen

- pesticides, especially neonicotinoides

Re: 75% decline over 27 years in total flying insect biomass in protected areas

#37

Post by GlenTheMachine »

ashark wrote: post #30
avip wrote: post #3

Yes. This is a case of hard data confirming what we already know. As in - few types of butterflies I used to like, and see yearly as a kid - are gone. I see them now once in 5 years, if lucky. I bring my kids to look because it's a first time for them. On the other hand, some types of beetles, ants, flies, mosquitoes, even wasps - are just new. They were not here 20-30 years ago. Now, what are the consequences of all…

Monarchs used to be a "oh cool, look, it's the 50-100 monarchs in that field which we'll see a couple times a week for the whole season" thing here. Now it's "holy crap, it's our one single monarch butterfly of the year!" thing.

That has a simple explanation, though. Monarch caterpillars can only survive on milkweed, and we've decimated the amount of milkweed around because we see it as, well, a weed.

Re: 75% decline over 27 years in total flying insect biomass in protected areas

#39

Post by nostrademons »

knodi wrote: post #23
avip wrote: post #3

Yes. This is a case of hard data confirming what we already know. As in - few types of butterflies I used to like, and see yearly as a kid - are gone. I see them now once in 5 years, if lucky. I bring my kids to look because it's a first time for them. On the other hand, some types of beetles, ants, flies, mosquitoes, even wasps - are just new. They were not here 20-30 years ago. Now, what are the consequences of all…

This kind of the same thing I'm seeing with firefly in Michigan. In the summer time when I first moved to MI over 30 years ago I use to see them everywhere in large amounts. This year they're back but last 3 years I didn't see them at all. As long as there are climate change deniers a.k.a Trump supports we're all in a lot of trouble, even humans.

Fireflies are interesting - as a New England kid in the 80s, I used to read about them in all sorts of childrens' books, but I was really bummed because I never saw one. I think I saw one firefly in my whole childhood. I just went back to Long Island this summer, and they were all over. It'd get to be twilight and hundreds of them would just be dancing through the air. I got to show my wife the childhood scene that I'd only imagined.

Maybe all the fireflies moved from Michigan to New York. I think I'd read somewhere that firefly populations tend to be very cyclical anyway though.

Re: 75% decline over 27 years in total flying insect biomass in protected areas

#40

Post by TheAdamAndChe »

aklemm wrote: post #4

Presumably this is similar here in the U.S.? In the 80's and 90's the fronts of our cars would get so encrusted with mashed bugs that it would take real scrubbing to get them off. I haven't had to do that in many years.

Vehicles are also a lot more aerodynamic. 5 years ago I had a Jeep Wrangler, which aerodynamically is like a box on wheels. In the summer, the grill and windshield got so many bugs on it that I worried about visibility problems. Now that I drive a Toyota Corolla, bugs are a nonissue.
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