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New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

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Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, but know that completely rational nations have decided to go with OPs way(like Norway)

Yes, and excellence is not rewarded in such societies. Edit: Look at how pay works in countries where such information is public (i.e. Scandinavia). My understanding is that within a given line of work, everyone makes just about the same amount, adjusted for seniority, regardless of performance.

Could you elaborate? This looks like a very throw-away, pithy comment.

Edit: Thanks

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#272
post #60

I'd prefer to see this go in the other direction and make all salary information public. Right now, employers have far more information than employees, and I don't think this law will do much to change that. To me, it's similar to real estate - imagine if only sellers had access to the database of exactly what every house sold for and when, but buyers had to go with unsubstantiated, scattered rumors. Or vise versa. T…

> make all salary information public. It's a disastrous idea. First of all, if you mean public as in "the whole world can know", I can't imagine anyone being comfortable with that. Advertisers, family members, people who don't like you, etc... surely you see the problem here. If by public you mean "only within the company", even this approach will create resentment and hundreds of hours wasted in discussions and nego…

> As someone running a large organization, this is also a logistical nightmare since I usually have very good reasons to compensate X more than Y even if Y might think they should be paid the same amount.

That's the key. I want to know what reasons. It is the best possible feedback for me. If you want to earn X more, you need to do this and that like this colleague does.

It will force management to have better salary policies. I have seen people getting offered almost doubling their salaries when they say that they are leaving. Just because they were badly underpaid to begin with.

Openness forces for better justifications of your actions.

> Besides, even as a hiring manager, I really think it's none of my business how much that previous employer valued this person. What matters is here and now. I just ask people how much they want then I counter with what we're comfortable paying, and then we negotiate.

That's a really good approach. And looks like you are someone that will easily be able to justify the salaries of your hires. But there is a lot of managers that will not, and they will need to get better at their jobs if salaries where open.

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#273
I don't see this is a big deal. You don't have to answer this question, I regularly deflect the question and tell potential employers that I'll be happy to give feedback at the offer point.

The question is asked initially before interviews in most cases and therefore I tell them my expectation is to remain competitive based on what I bring to the table.

Why is it so hard to be a grown up?

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#274
post #48

This is a ban on employers -- afaik, recruiters can still ask (and many probably will ask). But, IANAL. (Correction: It looks like recruiters fall under this prohibition too, if they are acting as agents of the employer.) I personally never answer questions about my previous salary or my expected salary. When HR has given me forms to fill out that have questions about either I just leave them blank, and they've never…

When asked about my salary, I always answer with the salary I wished I had. There's no requirement to tell the truth.

There was a fun Quora post not too long ago about someone asking "I made up a number, now they want proof as part of a background check, what do I do?" My own strategy I intend to apply in the future is to give my base salary + bonuses etc. If they never clarify I can only assume they had meant total compensation, not base, and who am I to complain if they offer me my current total as my new base?

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No thank you. My salary is private. I do not want my family and friends to know how much I make. I also have never told a potential employer my salary. I believe it stopped things from going on to the interview stage but the way they took my refusal made me assume they paid under market rate.

>No thank you. >My salary is private. I do not want my family and friends to know how much I make. But have you thought about why you feel this way? I assume you are American, as am I, and so I understand we've been socialized by our culture to feel this way, but it really makes no sense. It's just a way to harm workers by keeping us from seeing when we're being screwed. I'd even go so far as to wager that this entir…

Maybe American ideas about money work, given that we're the wealthiest[0] and most innovative people in the world. It seems that, barring good evidence to the contrary, the presumption should be in favor of how things are done in America.

[0] Among countries of substantial size. Countries that can have their entire economy based around a few niches aren't useful comparisons.

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#276
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>No thank you. >My salary is private. I do not want my family and friends to know how much I make. But have you thought about why you feel this way? I assume you are American, as am I, and so I understand we've been socialized by our culture to feel this way, but it really makes no sense. It's just a way to harm workers by keeping us from seeing when we're being screwed. I'd even go so far as to wager that this entir…

You make it sound as if Americans were more open about salaries as the rest of the world. My impressions up to now were opposite - Americans super open and others not much.

Definitely not what I see. Talking about salary among Americans is moderately taboo; among the Russians I know, it's a perfectly natural subject of conversation. It always feels weird to me because I mostly grew up in the US, but I definitely think the Russian approach is better: you get a real idea of what different companies and specialities can pay, and you'll know if people are trying to underpay you.

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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It should be private information so long as it's not considerably out of the ordinary (that could easily be a listing requirement established by an exchange). Just as in the case of eg acquisitions, which often will be or must be reported in specific financial terms if they're above a certain size.

If an programmer makes $100,000 in a company where programmers regularly earn that, it should not be public information. If the programmer is earning $2 million, it may be material to the shareholders to know that depending on the size of the company. If the company is Google and the programmer is regarded as extraordinary for some reason, $2 million (vs Google's overall financial picture) isn't a huge sum. If the entire sales of the company are $30 million, it blatantly would be material.

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don’t need to ask you anymore. You self-reported it to a credit agency and friends, family, potential employers can get that plus other financial information from these agencies.

That's totally false, at least in the US. Credit agencies measure whether you pay your debts, nothing more.

Not sure why you were downvoted. Your answer is correct.

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and excellence is not rewarded in such societies. Edit: Look at how pay works in countries where such information is public (i.e. Scandinavia). My understanding is that within a given line of work, everyone makes just about the same amount, adjusted for seniority, regardless of performance.

Could you elaborate? This looks like a very throw-away, pithy comment. Edit: Thanks

See my edit.

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>> Yes. I don't want to increase my attractiveness regarding a house robbery, as I live well below my means If you live below your means, why would robbers target you? They don't care how much you make, they care what TV you have.

Living below my means doesn't mean I live like my neighbors. My house is roughly the same as everyone around me. The contents of the house are not (and they are private), and yet I still live well below my means. I have a semi-nice TV, and more importantly, expensive computers like pretty much everyone on HN to do my job.

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