New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary • Hacker News Board

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#261

Post by jeirje88382hj » Wed, Oct 18, 2017, 9:37 PM UTC

icelancer wrote: post #175

tclancy wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I live well below my means in a developing neighborhood, amongst other reasons. And what, hide cash in your mattress?

Not really sure how I store my money is relevant; are you insinuating that my neighbors and potential regionally-available criminals can get my demand deposit and IRA balances at will? EDIT: Ah, I see, you were making a snarky joke about them breaking into my house and stealing stuff. I do have nice things in my house, yes, not cash under my mattress. Just because I live below my means doesn't mean I don't have thing…

Your neighbors and regional criminals don't need to check your balances to determine if they should rob your house.

They have your address and can quickly get a name from that, and probably find bread crumbs of work history, or that you're a "founder of a sports science" company.

Without even knowing the dollar amount of what you make, there's plenty of info on you that already exists in order to determine if you're a good target.

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#262

Post by wildmusings » Wed, Oct 18, 2017, 9:38 PM UTC

geebee wrote: post #60

I'd prefer to see this go in the other direction and make all salary information public. Right now, employers have far more information than employees, and I don't think this law will do much to change that. To me, it's similar to real estate - imagine if only sellers had access to the database of exactly what every house sold for and when, but buyers had to go with unsubstantiated, scattered rumors. Or vise versa. T…

This is how you empower the envious to bring everyone down to their level of mediocrity. The vitriol directed at the successful is already damaging us, why should we further encourage it?

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#263

Post by danso » Wed, Oct 18, 2017, 9:39 PM UTC

FreakyT wrote: post #207

santaclaus wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Salary information, with names and job titles, is public for most (all?) state employees. You can, for instance, look up the salaries of Berkeley professors.

Exactly this—we've essentially already done parent's suggestion for public employees, and nothing negative has come of it. It's amazing how many of the comments here are making hyperbolic suggestions about all the terrible things that would happen if salary data were public -- considering the data, these comments are not only misguided, but experimentally proven to be incorrect .

What do you mean "nothing negative" has come of it? I agree that the scenarios of robbers targeting folks based on an income database are far-fetched, but I interpret "negative" to include more subtle, systemic impacts, such as furthering the bias against haves/have-nots, or at least making it easier to shame/doxx people.

It's also important to note that public employee salaries are within a specific domain with specific features. Among the most important: public agencies already have to publish pay schedules, so it's always been possible to guesstimate what someone makes given their job title. And there's the moral argument that citizens have a right to know how their tax dollars are spent.

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#264

Post by wildmusings » Wed, Oct 18, 2017, 9:39 PM UTC

oh_sigh wrote: post #121

cracell wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No thank you. My salary is private. I do not want my family and friends to know how much I make. I also have never told a potential employer my salary. I believe it stopped things from going on to the interview stage but the way they took my refusal made me assume they paid under market rate.

Ok, but know that completely rational nations have decided to go with OPs way(like Norway)

Yes, and excellence is not rewarded in such societies.

Edit: Look at how pay works in countries where such information is public (i.e. Scandinavia). My understanding is that within a given line of work, everyone makes just about the same amount, adjusted for seniority, regardless of performance.

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#265

Post by seiferteric » Wed, Oct 18, 2017, 9:40 PM UTC

icelancer wrote: post #243

seiferteric wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have read stories about people being taken at gunpoint to the ATM to withdraw their cash, it can happen.

I am sure that is possible though I don't really fear it. I did when I worked in Latin America, however.

Okay, how about hackers targeting your bank/retirement account after they learn how much you make over the internet?

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#266

Post by adventured » Wed, Oct 18, 2017, 9:41 PM UTC

whataretensors wrote: post #198

Sangermaine wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>No thank you. >My salary is private. I do not want my family and friends to know how much I make. But have you thought about why you feel this way? I assume you are American, as am I, and so I understand we've been socialized by our culture to feel this way, but it really makes no sense. It's just a way to harm workers by keeping us from seeing when we're being screwed. I'd even go so far as to wager that this entir…

> but it really makes no sense If you have jealous and spiteful family you might feel differently. Unless you like hearing sob stories or being blamed for other people's problems.

And who doesn't have at least one person like that in their life? Although it definitely wouldn't be limited to just jealous or spiteful family. Public salary information for all people would cause routine problems between friends and family across countless situations and issues over a lifetime. It's a recipe for social disaster.

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#267

Post by ryandrake » Wed, Oct 18, 2017, 9:41 PM UTC

dclowd9901 wrote: post #80

otakucode wrote: post #31

I've never once answered such a question and never understood why anyone would. When they ask, you tell them you don't give out that information. I've never even had someone question that or ask twice.

I once had a recruiter (contracted) get angry and berate me when I refused to answer, then finally gave in and gave him my full compensation figure from when I worked at Google. He said I was lying and nobody would hire me at that rate. Needless to say I let him know what I thought of him and ended that contact, letting the HR department at the company for whom he was recruiting know what a jackass he was.

I also had a recruiter (in-house, working for the company) become difficult when I refused to provide current salary. She tried several times to suss it out of me and when it didn't work, discontinued the engagement, at which point the interviews stopped. I think I may have dodged a bullet.

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#268

Post by fierro » Wed, Oct 18, 2017, 9:42 PM UTC

icelancer wrote: post #164

Sangermaine wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>No thank you. >My salary is private. I do not want my family and friends to know how much I make. But have you thought about why you feel this way? I assume you are American, as am I, and so I understand we've been socialized by our culture to feel this way, but it really makes no sense. It's just a way to harm workers by keeping us from seeing when we're being screwed. I'd even go so far as to wager that this entir…

>>But have you thought about why you feel this way? Yes. I don't want to increase my attractiveness regarding a house robbery, as I live well below my means in a developing neighborhood, amongst other reasons. I very much understand the concept of leverage and have no problems privately discussing my salary amongst groups that I trust. That doesn't include the entire Internet.

I feel like this is kind of silly. Anyone could make a reasonable estimate of your salary based on your job, which is easily discoverable. At least enough to make a decision "should I rob this house." What are we even talking about here?

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#269

Post by Karunamon » Wed, Oct 18, 2017, 9:42 PM UTC

closeparen wrote: post #196

Sangermaine wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>No thank you. >My salary is private. I do not want my family and friends to know how much I make. But have you thought about why you feel this way? I assume you are American, as am I, and so I understand we've been socialized by our culture to feel this way, but it really makes no sense. It's just a way to harm workers by keeping us from seeing when we're being screwed. I'd even go so far as to wager that this entir…

One possibility is that extended family may feel that you make more money than a person could possibly need, and ought to share it with them. Easier to avoid this tension if you don’t let on how well you’re doing.

That's more a cause of the culture than the result of it, though. If all salaries were made public tomorrow, yeah, there's going to be the bit of occasional strife, but more than there is now over the long term? Hard to say.

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#270

Post by pgeorgi » Wed, Oct 18, 2017, 9:43 PM UTC

Sangermaine wrote: post #154

cracell wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No thank you. My salary is private. I do not want my family and friends to know how much I make. I also have never told a potential employer my salary. I believe it stopped things from going on to the interview stage but the way they took my refusal made me assume they paid under market rate.

>No thank you. >My salary is private. I do not want my family and friends to know how much I make. But have you thought about why you feel this way? I assume you are American, as am I, and so I understand we've been socialized by our culture to feel this way, but it really makes no sense. It's just a way to harm workers by keeping us from seeing when we're being screwed. I'd even go so far as to wager that this entir…

>> I do not want my family and friends to know how much I make.

> But have you thought about why you feel this way?

Not every family is healthy. Some become _decidedly_ unhealthy as soon as money comes into play, and having precise figures available can be really destructive.

It might work better in more egalitarian societies, where the difference in pay is less to begin with (eg Scandinavia). But that's not a road the US (and many other places) is willing to take.