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New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

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Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#241

Post by icelancer »

grasshopperpurp wrote: post #219
icelancer wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>But have you thought about why you feel this way? Yes. I don't want to increase my attractiveness regarding a house robbery, as I live well below my means in a developing neighborhood, amongst other reasons. I very much understand the concept of leverage and have no problems privately discussing my salary amongst groups that I trust. That doesn't include the entire Internet.

That's a legit concern. Assuming it was possible, if only those in your company could see your salary (and you could see their salaries), would you be in favor of it? I'm also assuming that people in your company don't live in your neighborhood/wouldn't be burglary threats.

I am the founder of a company and I have told my employees my salary, so this isn't really a theoretical question I guess. So, yes. I have no problem disclosing it to those who matter. The reason behind me disclosing it was to show that I was not the highest paid person in the company per salary. I have asked my employees if they want their salaries shared, they have overwhelmingly voted against it, even when I bring up negotiation power.

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#242

Post by michaelmrose »

mirrormind wrote: post #132
geebee wrote: post #60

I'd prefer to see this go in the other direction and make all salary information public. Right now, employers have far more information than employees, and I don't think this law will do much to change that. To me, it's similar to real estate - imagine if only sellers had access to the database of exactly what every house sold for and when, but buyers had to go with unsubstantiated, scattered rumors. Or vise versa. T…

h1b salary data is public. here you go: https://lcr-pjr.doleta.gov/index.cfm?event=ehLCJRExternal.ds... btw, its not just shortage of "workers". Like it or not.. some h1b workers do have skills that you lack

Mostly skills like the power of being able to work for under market wages for headhunting firms that make campaign contributions or who provide employees for firms that make campaign contributions.

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#243

Post by icelancer »

seiferteric wrote: post #232
tclancy wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I live well below my means in a developing neighborhood, amongst other reasons. And what, hide cash in your mattress?

I have read stories about people being taken at gunpoint to the ATM to withdraw their cash, it can happen.

I am sure that is possible though I don't really fear it. I did when I worked in Latin America, however.

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#244

Post by ocdtrekkie »

yodsanklai wrote: post #231
Sangermaine wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>No thank you. >My salary is private. I do not want my family and friends to know how much I make. But have you thought about why you feel this way? I assume you are American, as am I, and so I understand we've been socialized by our culture to feel this way, but it really makes no sense. It's just a way to harm workers by keeping us from seeing when we're being screwed. I'd even go so far as to wager that this entir…

> I assume you are American, as am I, and so I understand we've been socialized by our culture to feel this way Just a unrelated comment. It's funny to hear that. In France there's a widespread stereotype that Americans are very open to talk about their salary.

The stereotype is definitely incorrect. Americans find it incredibly uncomfortable to talk salary. It's considered pretty rude to ask, if someone's going to, it's usually preceded with an apology or a 'if you don't mind me asking'.

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#245

Post by bargl »

beingmyself2 wrote: post #149
bargl wrote: post #54

I've recently been on both ends of the table here. I don't share my previous salary but I'm always willing to share a pay range. The range being higher than I'd ever expect to get paid. I find this to be important when discussing salary with an employer because it gives me a baseline to continue discussions. If they can't meet my bottom line then I'm not interested. The reason I give a range is because salary is only…

> The reason I give a range is because salary is only a SMALL part of your compensation package I wish people would stop perpetuating this myth. Bonus is discretionary (meaning they can give you $0) while salary is not. Salary is a BIG part of your compensation package because that is the primary reason people work. Most would work for salary without medical but not the other way around. Claiming salary is small pota…

>I wish people would stop perpetuating this myth.

It is not a myth. If the company pays out then you make more money. It isn't GUARANTEED salary but neither is stock. Sure it's not worth every dollar they say you might get but it does have a value based on the history of the Company. I've done very well for myself going with a slightly lower salary and accepting a 2x1 ratio on the bonus. I.E. If they offer 100K. I'll accept 90K and a 20K bonus (this advice very much depends on the company). If the company has a history of giving out their minimum bonus every year then you're probably OK. If it's a startup that ratio would go up. 3x1 or 4x1. It's more of a risk so don't take it all on yourself.

Medical can be up 500 per month per person in your family for a fully covered company. 401K can also be a great tool as well.

This is 100% why I suggest giving a range of salaries. Take the bonus at what it's worth to you. Just like stock. It is not a 1 to 1 relationship but it does add value. If you just assume you make what you get in your salary you aren't doing the real math of evaluating what you are really worth.

For that matter factor in commute too! It's time you are away from home.

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#246

Post by lr4444lr »

vilmosi wrote: post #221
icelancer wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>But have you thought about why you feel this way? Yes. I don't want to increase my attractiveness regarding a house robbery, as I live well below my means in a developing neighborhood, amongst other reasons. I very much understand the concept of leverage and have no problems privately discussing my salary amongst groups that I trust. That doesn't include the entire Internet.

>>> Yes. I don't want to increase my attractiveness regarding a house robbery, as I live well below my means If you live below your means, why would robbers target you? They don't care how much you make, they care what TV you have.

How about kidnapping your loved ones for ransom?

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#247

Post by michaelmrose »

chollida1 wrote: post #3

> The goal is to narrow the gender wage gap. If a woman is paid less than a man doing the same job and a new employer bases her pay on her prior salary, gender discrimination can be perpetuated, the bill’s backers say. Hmm, I'd never thought about that angle,but I guess it makes sense. No word on if they are allowed to use Equifax, etc to pull salary data from? EDIT: looking at the bill it looks like querying Equifax…

Can they simply seek a recommendation from a firm operating in a state or region that DOES allow seeking salary data.

If I merely ask how much I ought to offer and provide the applicants data then it would seem no law is breached.

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#248

Post by bargl »

caoyangs wrote: post #88
bargl wrote: post #54

I've recently been on both ends of the table here. I don't share my previous salary but I'm always willing to share a pay range. The range being higher than I'd ever expect to get paid. I find this to be important when discussing salary with an employer because it gives me a baseline to continue discussions. If they can't meet my bottom line then I'm not interested. The reason I give a range is because salary is only…

How well has "giving a range" worked for you? I think when you give a range, the employer always tries to pay you the minimum in your range.

That hasn't been my case. I typically beat them up a lot on benefits unless they have great benefits.

My bottom range is expecting a bonus of 10-20%, Medical, 4 weeks vacation 4% matching 401k, Paternity leave of at least a month etc.

These are things I take into consideration if you don't have that expect to see the higher end of my range.

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#249

Post by [deleted] »

kornish wrote: post #240
vilmosi wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>> Yes. I don't want to increase my attractiveness regarding a house robbery, as I live well below my means If you live below your means, why would robbers target you? They don't care how much you make, they care what TV you have.

How would the robbers know he lives below his means? All they see is that he's making 2x his neighbors.

[deleted]

Re: New law bans California employers from asking applicants their prior salary

#250

Post by danso »

everdev wrote: post #212
Sangermaine wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>No thank you. >My salary is private. I do not want my family and friends to know how much I make. But have you thought about why you feel this way? I assume you are American, as am I, and so I understand we've been socialized by our culture to feel this way, but it really makes no sense. It's just a way to harm workers by keeping us from seeing when we're being screwed. I'd even go so far as to wager that this entir…

All Americans have a right to privacy. Their reason for privacy doesn't matter and doesn't need to make sense to you. Compensation is an important conversation to make sure a job is a win/win. I think "What would you like to be paid?" is the most relevant question anyway.

> All Americans have a right to privacy. Their reason for privacy doesn't matter and doesn't need to make sense to you.

Seeing how the right to privacy is not specifically enshrined, I would argue that the reasons for keeping some things private is very much at the heart of the matter. For instance, why does the government not think the benefits of transparency outweigh the disadvantages when it comes to individual reported income, versus say, divorce records (most of which will include income, among many many more private facts said in court).

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