Just own the damn robots • Hacker News Board

Re: Just own the damn robots

#251

Post by explainplease » Wed, Oct 18, 2017, 1:01 PM UTC

aluhut wrote: post #240

explainplease wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's helpful to look at it in terms of control vs. freedom. Communism means more state control of people, capitalism means less. In these terms, what if capitalism is simply the natural outcome of x amount of freedom? Therefore, shifting away from capitalism means shifting toward either anarchy or communism (even if both of those options are far away in absolute distances). This makes it hard to discuss thing…

As someone who comes from a soviet block country, I wanted to thank you. You described it pretty good on the meta level. I may come back and copy it in future ;) It's far more then the mysterious criticism above deserved as an answer and the "criticism" of this comment goes the same way. There is a certain fear in left Utopism from the realization of what you've described. That fear is being drowned in endless deriva…

Thank you for sharing that. I wish more people like yourself, who have first-hand experience, would speak out. As you noted, the rhetorical techniques they use are not in good faith. We need more actual witnesses to testify against it, because such personal testimony is less susceptible to the deceptive, distracting non-arguments they use.

> To me, it's a wasted effort. This energy all those bright young people invest there could be directed towards coming up with something really new or at least making what we have more social. I hope they'll get there one day.

Indeed. This seems to be the troubling outcome of their long-term efforts in academia. It often seems like humanity is doomed to repeat the horrors of history, not only because our memories are so fragile, but because there are always a few dedicated to systematically erasing them. What a tragic waste of human resources. We could stand on the shoulders of giants, but instead we are pulled back into the crab bucket.

Keep fighting the good fight, my friend. :)

Re: Just own the damn robots

#252

Post by lostboys67 » Wed, Oct 18, 2017, 1:02 PM UTC

suls wrote: post #198

Terr_ wrote: post #116

> In this context, the FANG stocks are not a gimmick or a fad, they’re a f---ing life raft. Note that if you are employed in one of those companies, you should think twice how you'd want to invest in them, because you're actually putting a bunch of your eggs in one basket. I keep remembering those poor Enron employees whose retirement funds were mainly in stock of Enron itself, so that they were both unemployed and f…

This. Just a bit of portfolio theory would make it very clear this isn’t a good idea .. .. yet I have to defend myself every odd month as to why I am not participating in the employee stock ownership program.

Depends on program in the uk share save schemes are an obvious no brainer investment you literally cant lose more than the difference between inflation and the guaranteed return if the stocks are under water at exercise time

Re: Just own the damn robots

#253

Post by lostboys67 » Wed, Oct 18, 2017, 1:06 PM UTC

taberiand wrote: post #24

arichard123 wrote: post #21

I just don't buy it. I understand I'm in a minority, so let me indulge myself and explain, for a moment, why I think AI / Robots are nothing to worry about. My claim is: Robots will not replace humans in all jobs. Further, it's more than because of Human preference, I think that Robots will lack cognitive abilities that we have. My expectation is that in each area where they are deficient then they may well become a…

Humans aren't so complicated that an AI won't be able to model those things you've listed.

ah this is we will have true AI in 5 years which has been said every year since the 1960's - likewise the fusion "to cheap to meter" which has been going since the 1950's

Re: Just own the damn robots

#254

Post by explainplease » Wed, Oct 18, 2017, 1:07 PM UTC

ddnb wrote: post #249

explainplease wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By "means" I mean "necessarily results in," not "is defined as." If after my clarifying that you still disagree, please explain, otherwise what's the point of saying so?

It still is not correct >Communism means more state control of people, capitalism means less. In comparison to what? Eachother? Because western-europe has more control than the US, china has more control than western-europe (and let's not pretend china isn't capitalist). These are economic systems and are seperate from political systems.

> In comparison to what? Eachother?

Yes, that is the point I tried to make with all those paragraphs.

> These are economic systems and are seperate from political systems.

I directly addressed this in the penultimate full paragraph.

> and let's not pretend china isn't capitalist

It depends on how you define "capitalist." Some industries in China are state-controlled--is that capitalist? Is "capitalist" 0% state control, or > It still is not correct

I realize that you're not the first person I replied to, nor the last, but I wish you would say why you think I'm wrong, because otherwise what's the point of saying so?

Re: Just own the damn robots

#255

Post by doctorstupid » Wed, Oct 18, 2017, 1:08 PM UTC

javajosh wrote: post #84

A certain amount of compute capacity should be given with citizenship to each individual. It is fixed. You get to use that capacity however you want: some on your phone, some on your laptop. If you want to run an internet business that uses a lot of compute capacity, then you'll need to rent it from other individuals and consolidate it under your control.

You mean a brain?

Re: Just own the damn robots

#256

Post by lostboys67 » Wed, Oct 18, 2017, 1:14 PM UTC

goatlover wrote: post #194

BoiledCabbage wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Customer-facing service jobs employ a huge number of people But irreplaceable ones aren't. Bank tellers, cashiers, bus drivers, firemen, card dealers, bar tenders... all can and will be replaced by automation and consumers won't care.

I don't see bartenders being replaced en masse. It's as much about social interaction as it is about pouring a drink, particularly for your local hangout.

and the average bar /pub is such a chaotic and disorderly place a robot that could replace a human is probably not going to happen.

E.g. design me a robot that can work in say 90% or bars and pubs including climbing down the ladder to the cellar and putting on a new barrel and that's not to count the dealing with unruly customers.

Re: Just own the damn robots

#257

Post by lostboys67 » Wed, Oct 18, 2017, 1:16 PM UTC

electrograv wrote: post #164

Zanni wrote: post #161

What I never see mentioned in these types of articles is the rise of the service economy. There are some jobs that will never be automated because we prefer to deal with humans. Take food service for instance. No one wants to go to a high end steak house and have their wine poured and meal served by robots. Human interaction is part of the experience and part of the value. (At McDonald's, by contrast, the humans don'…

> No one wants to go to a high end steak house and have their wine poured and meal served by robots. I’m sorry, but that actually sounds like a wonderfully peaceful way to dine.

Don't take this the wrong way but you need to think about some therapy and being able to take a random piece of steak and correctly prepare it 99% of the time is a hard problem.

Re: Just own the damn robots

#258

Post by lostboys67 » Wed, Oct 18, 2017, 1:18 PM UTC

jboggan wrote: post #8

"We’re in an age where we’re being told AI is about to start writing its own software." The most pregnant sentence in the entire piece.

I recall that being touted in the 70's there was a program marketed for PET's and Apples as "the last one" which would replace the need for almost all developers :-)

Re: Just own the damn robots

#259

Post by Sean1708 » Wed, Oct 18, 2017, 1:21 PM UTC

michaelbuckbee wrote: post #33

arichard123 wrote: post #21

I just don't buy it. I understand I'm in a minority, so let me indulge myself and explain, for a moment, why I think AI / Robots are nothing to worry about. My claim is: Robots will not replace humans in all jobs. Further, it's more than because of Human preference, I think that Robots will lack cognitive abilities that we have. My expectation is that in each area where they are deficient then they may well become a…

It was some article here on HN a while back that framed this much better for me. It's NOT that Robots are going to take all the jobs, it's that automation and productivity advances are going to reduce the people necessary by a drastic degree. There's lots of stats like Ikea factories making 17x the bookcases they did in 1985 but with the same number of staff. But even in our technical and development niche, look at s…

But didn't that all happen during the Industrial Revolution as well? Why is this any different?

Re: Just own the damn robots

#260

Post by lostboys67 » Wed, Oct 18, 2017, 1:25 PM UTC

Animats wrote: post #18

jboggan wrote: post #8

"We’re in an age where we’re being told AI is about to start writing its own software." The most pregnant sentence in the entire piece.

"At last - the end of programming!" - 'The Last One'[1], from 1981, a BASIC code generator. [1] https://modeling-languages.com/last-one-code-generator-basic...

I remember that one