Live data from Hacker News

Just own the damn robots

thereformedbroker.com

241–250 of 356 posts

Re: Just own the damn robots

#241

I just don't buy it. I understand I'm in a minority, so let me indulge myself and explain, for a moment, why I think AI / Robots are nothing to worry about. My claim is: Robots will not replace humans in all jobs. Further, it's more than because of Human preference, I think that Robots will lack cognitive abilities that we have. My expectation is that in each area where they are deficient then they may well become a…

You may want to elaborate on the "can not be matched by our technology" aspect. I'll try.

An "80 IQ" manager will fail at the list of six tasks, and a "120 IQ" manager will be a success, by most peoples analysis.

Surely, an intelligent but inadequate AI would be mentored like an intelligent but inadequate human manager. We have millennia of experience proving humans can't do that successfully. Therefore if we invent an inadequate AI, regardless of being close to human performance, we know we can't improve performance to make them useful. We play games with re-rolling the dice, but the clock time and human labor time make that too expensive (although it works for mere numerological metric number optimization problems). We play games with pretending that the history of flipping honest coins implies something about the honest coin although it implies more about self delusion and statistics. We play political games where the leader is useless but at least the leader is our guy, our kind of people.

Sure, for the sake of argument, I'll take it on faith we can build a mentally disabled AI manager. But we know based on centuries of experience we have no idea how to "fix" a mentally disabled manager into something successful. This is not necessarily a complete black pill. A developmentally disabled AI might, if its merely disabled and not evil, be handy to provide minimal supervision to small children or animals in a safe controlled environment. Its just not going to be very useful.

Maybe rephrased, that's nice that some believe we can run a marathon, and maybe we can get part way, but if we absolutely know based on substantial experience we can't upgrade an athlete to run the critical last 100 feet to break the tape and finish, then why bother? Or if we have to build a bridge 1010 feet long if in separate experiments we know we can't extend a bridge past 1000 feet long then it doesn't matter if we have faith or belief that we can build it 10 feet or 950 feet or 999.9 feet because we know once we hit 1000 feet we have no idea how to get it to 1010 feet based on centuries of trying really hard using off the shelf cheap self reproducing biological bridges of 1000 feet length.

My greatest fear of AI is it will turn political and we'll no longer be able to talk about the science and technology of AI; it'll just be another dog whistle signal for one side or another, like many other topics "discussed" here on HN. Kool kids will have the right blind faith, the enemy will have the wrong blind faith.

Re: Just own the damn robots

#242
post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? Haven't you been listening to the central banks? Inflation is abysmally low, we gotta pump up prices to get the economy going. With such low inflation, it's impossible that housing prices increased 40% within one year. /s

I don’t think house prices are included in the consumer price index. Most governments tie social security payouts to CPI and are therefore motivated to change the CPI calculation method to minimize the rise. If you dig down into what they actually measure all common economic indicators (GDP, PPP, CPI, ...) are B.S. They’re there to pretend that economics is a science, while in practice it’s more of an art, or a quack…

exactly I know the UK government was looking at a CPI+H but it didn't produce the figure they wanted so the ONS was told to go away and try again (source was some one who works for the ONS)

Re: Just own the damn robots

#243
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't mean that the technology hasn't progressed. Cheap labor from countries like China has made it less profitable to invest in automation.

it's also possible that we no longer have a lot of general technology imporvements that can be cost effective relative to just paying someone. We could probably build excellent robots to bring food from the kitchen to tables of a restaurant, but the capital costs are just not worth it relative to hiring wait staff (conveyor belt sushi nonwithstanding). Would it ever be worth it to Chili's to outfit a 40-table restaur…

easier in UK to import degree educated youngsters from eastern Europe and pay them the minimum wage

Re: Just own the damn robots

#244

Reads like this are slowly convincing me not to buy into the world of mortgages and debt and to just live the rest of my life paying for everything in cash. I tried to buy a house last year with my wife but the market exploded where I live and suddenly houses were 40% more expensive from last year. So we still rent, which makes me feel incomplete. Like I'm kind of failing my duty of bringing the Canadian Dream to my…

Slightly off-topic, but that is the main reason I do not want to have kids: I am not sure I would like the kind of person I would become. Sometimes I am already paralysed by fear when thoughts about my future take a dark turn (relatively often), but at the end of the day it is my well-being (and my wife's) we are talking about, and we are economically independent adults. We could take a hit or two. Throwing little de…

Every one of your ancestors raised children successfully.

Re: Just own the damn robots

#245

Interesting article but I think the premise that workers are buying tech stocks because they fear automation is incorrect. Gallup found 13% of Americans thought that their jobs would soon be replaced by automation[1]. In fact you usually find more people worried about immigration than automation[2]. Maybe people /should/ be more concerned about automation but they just aren’t right now. [1]: http://news.gallup.com/po…

I think that 1 in 7 Americans worried about automation is a lot. If they are right, and they lose their jobs, the safety nets will be strained even further.

Re: Just own the damn robots

#246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The largest market cap companies in a given decade, overwhelmingly tend to be under-performers in the following decade. It's a trend that has repeated decade after decade. Many of these types of companies - AMZN, NFLX, GOOGL, FB - have pulled a massive share of their future returns forward (which is what happened to Microsoft, stagnating its stock for ~15 years). In 2007 the largest companies were: Exxon, GE, Microso…

Oddly enough, you can observe the same phenomenon for fighter pilots! After an amazing run, pilots tend to give a mediocre performance. Is it 'future value compression,' or just reversion to the mean?

Or they get burnt out and die as happened to a lot of ww2 German aces

Re: Just own the damn robots

#247
post #217
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don’t encourage the Toronto housing bubble. (Or Vancouver, OP is surely in one of the two) I’m sure Georgianism has its merits, but housing generally hasn’t been a great investment in most of north america, especially once maintenance costs are factored in. Meanwhile, Toronto and Vancouver are in the midst of a speculative housing mania. House prices have far outpaced rents. OP is correct not to buy. (Especial…

> I’m sure Georgianism has its merits, but housing generally hasn’t been a great investment in most of north america, especially once maintenance costs are factored in. Georgists would expect housing (or rather, land) prices to rise in places where productivity is increasing, and not in places where productivity isn't increasing, which seems to align with what we're seeing - economic growth is largely happening in th…

Yeah, i think in a broader sense that’s true. In Toronto and Vancouver though, prices have fast outstripped economic growth. Vancouver and Toronto aren’t particularly high income cities, relative to, say, Montreal.

Re: Just own the damn robots

#248
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don’t encourage the Toronto housing bubble. (Or Vancouver, OP is surely in one of the two) I’m sure Georgianism has its merits, but housing generally hasn’t been a great investment in most of north america, especially once maintenance costs are factored in. Meanwhile, Toronto and Vancouver are in the midst of a speculative housing mania. House prices have far outpaced rents. OP is correct not to buy. (Especial…

This is quite fair. No message to "put all your money in land!" was intended, and indeed we see many cases of localized manias, the galloping of irrational exuberance. Land bubbles come and go, but the underlying cause is the same. What's productive about bidding up the price of land, after all?

Indeed. Also, I should say I was commenting more for Canadians reading, rather than because I thought you were for putting money in land.

I’ll have to read up on Georgism. I’m very interested in alternatives to an income tax; it seems counterproductive to tax something we want to have. There are so many things with externalities we could replace it with.

Re: Just own the damn robots

#249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a fallacious distinction. That's not what each one means.

By "means" I mean "necessarily results in," not "is defined as." If after my clarifying that you still disagree, please explain, otherwise what's the point of saying so?

It still is not correct

>Communism means more state control of people, capitalism means less.

In comparison to what? Eachother? Because western-europe has more control than the US, china has more control than western-europe (and let's not pretend china isn't capitalist). These are economic systems and are seperate from political systems.

Re: Just own the damn robots

#250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slightly off-topic, but that is the main reason I do not want to have kids: I am not sure I would like the kind of person I would become. Sometimes I am already paralysed by fear when thoughts about my future take a dark turn (relatively often), but at the end of the day it is my well-being (and my wife's) we are talking about, and we are economically independent adults. We could take a hit or two. Throwing little de…

OTOH is you get kids you will be so busy you can't think about these things as often. I tend to think we humans have an agony ratio we tend to maximise, pretty independently of circumstances. :) With kids you will worry as much, but over different things. And also the old things, when you get time over to mull over those...

I would never try to tell someone they should have kids, or make someone feel like there is anything wrong with not having them. But going on vacations or having luxury items seems so trivial compared to what I've experienced since my son was born.

I don't think I'm capable of putting into words what it feels like when the doctor hands you that baby. But I can say that I don't care as much what kind of vehicle I drive, or what clothes I'm wearing, and it seems silly how much thought I used to put into such things.

But I do see enough parents who obviously see their kids as nothing but an anchor to know that it's not for everyone. Some people aren't ready, or incapable, of shifting the focus away from themselves.

Post reply on HN