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Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

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Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#81
post #60
post #30

Once bash on windows gets sufficiently close to my needs and I am able to swap alt with ctrl, I will little resistance for going from OS X to windows.

linux as daily driver is honestly good, from the bottom of my heart (I recommend xfce)

Also if any Linux laptop can give me 8 plus hours of productive battery life I am also switching. I had problems with an old one where closing laptop lid drained all the battery so I constantly had to worry about the on state of my laptop

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#82
post #17

We had a candidate come in for interviews, and one of them was a video-conference programming session with a remote interviewer. We set them up with a Macbook (running Windows/Bootcamp) for live-coding. The candidate hit the Power button, located where DEL used to be. Laptop goes to sleep (candidate said it shut down but it probably just went to sleep). He gets it back up but then it needs a login etc., so he had to…

On Thinkpads you have to hold the power button a bit for it to actually register.

Same on macOS, and even then you just get a dialog box asking if you want to shut down. Hold it down for 5-10 seconds and you initiate a force shutdown.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For development it is amazing. I have dedicated buttons for Build, Run, Debug, Stop, Step Into and Step Over I have these in IntelliJ as standard key combos (some being Fn keys). All of these I can touch type. I can't see how this would be improved by having to look down at the mini-screen at the top of the keyboard.

You can use it for things wouldn't normally remember or that require arcane key commands. Two buttons I use are to Expand/Collapse All Code Folds.

Yes I can see that being useful. The cost (losing touch typing on the Fn keys) would be far too high for me.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#84

The best kind of controversial Apple design is one that people grumble about because it's ahead of its time, but which ultimately replaces one way of doing things with another that's better for most use cases. See: ditching floppies and adopting USB on the first iMac. The worst kind of controversial Apple design is one that people grumble about because it's aesthetically pleasing but actually makes the product less u…

I understand what you are getting at, but in reality not everyone has issues with the new design, and I’m as yet unclear whether it’s a vocal minority who do, or a more widespread thing. Personally, I really like my new 15” Pro. I’m in favour of anything which can make it thinner and lighter, to a point, as I like to be able to carry it around easily, while still having a large screen. The design looks beautiful. In…

I'm on Windows, so there's that.

I constantly (multiple times a day) use F1 (help, least used), F3 (search again, next match), F4 (both for the famous close window shortcut and to get to the explorer address bar), F5 (reload in browser, run in other apps), F9 (toggle breakpoint in VS), F10 (step over in VS), F11 (step into in VS).

Occasionally F8, F12.

Couldn't live without those, I guess, and I can find all of those blindly.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand what you are getting at, but in reality not everyone has issues with the new design, and I’m as yet unclear whether it’s a vocal minority who do, or a more widespread thing. Personally, I really like my new 15” Pro. I’m in favour of anything which can make it thinner and lighter, to a point, as I like to be able to carry it around easily, while still having a large screen. The design looks beautiful. In…

I'm on Windows, so there's that. I constantly (multiple times a day) use F1 (help, least used), F3 (search again, next match), F4 (both for the famous close window shortcut and to get to the explorer address bar), F5 (reload in browser, run in other apps), F9 (toggle breakpoint in VS), F10 (step over in VS), F11 (step into in VS). Occasionally F8, F12. Couldn't live without those, I guess, and I can find all of those…

Ahh yes, function key use is much more prevalent in Windows for whatever reason. On the Mac most of those shortcuts have always been Cmd+letter instead (e.g. Cmd-R = refresh, Cmd-W = close window, Cmd-Q = close app, Cmd-F = find), so perhaps that is why Apple see the Fn keys as expendable.

On the debug thing, having the debug controls on the Touch Bar with XCode (available from any app) is one of the few actually definitely useful things about it. Spotify integration could be, except they decided not to show song name or anything else useful on there.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#87
post #21

Based on the title I assumed that this person was going to be complaining about joint damage due to the low key travel. This keyboard on my 12" MacBook is so bad that between having to get the top case replaced to fix broken keys (when as stated in the article, careful blowing didn't work and trying to replace the keys caused them to break) and my fingers feeing like they have aged many years from the poor ergonomics…

Your story resonated with me because I had the same experiences with a 12” MacBook. While I can’t really use you as an example, since you kind of need a Mac for a lot of the work you do specifically, I’ve heard the same complaints about Apple hardware from other long-time Mac users that don’t actually need to have a Mac. I am curious how many of those of us that don’t need macOS day to day have voted with their walle…

Also migrated to a Dell XPS 15 as new Macs stopped exciting me.

No coil whine in mine, but it was hell finding just the right bios version so sleep would work. And if you don't use a specific Intel you driver version you get screen flicker. Le sigh.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#88
post #21

Based on the title I assumed that this person was going to be complaining about joint damage due to the low key travel. This keyboard on my 12" MacBook is so bad that between having to get the top case replaced to fix broken keys (when as stated in the article, careful blowing didn't work and trying to replace the keys caused them to break) and my fingers feeing like they have aged many years from the poor ergonomics…

If you're damaging your keys and hurting your fingers, you may be typing too hard for the keyboard. I'm not suggesting that that's your fault, just that there may be a mismatch between your preferred typing style and Apple's. I looked at the 12" Macbook when they first came out and was attracted by the small form factor but completely turned off by the keyboard's almost non-existent key travel. I much preferred the heavy, mechanical switches on my Das Keyboard on my Windows desktop. But ... my Windows machine died, and I switched to a Mac Mini with a bluetooth keyboard for a few months. When I returned to my Das Keyboard, I found I didn't like it as much. My typing speed was much faster on the Apple bluetooth keyboard, partly due to the lighter touch required. I now prefer typing with a lighter touch, and eventually picked up a Macbook and love it. I'd still prefer a bit more key travel, but I'm okay with the tradeoff for the form factor.

TL;DR - Macbook keyboards require a light touch, which may not suit your personal style.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#89
post #69
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I understood it the part where you hit the power button when you don't want is the root of the problem. The horrible Mac keyboard is accidentally also the topic here.

Well, as noted though, this behavior is determined by the OS; it's not a hard-coded part of the system or anything. Windows has a control-panel option for what Windows should do when the power button is pressed, and for whatever reason, it defaults to "Shutdown". This is not the behavior on macOS, and as such accidental presses are not a problem on macOS, nor would it on Windows if the user desired.

Accidental power button are still a problem, because obviously the correct key wasn't hit. It's mitigated, but a mitigated problem is still a problem.

But with proper keyboard design, accidental presses wouldn't be a problem.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#90
I replaced my broken MBP 2013 to 2017. The keyboard is really horrible!! The 2013 KB was wonderful and I can't find any other laptop with same great KB.

With the new MBP, after one month of purchase, the display is down. I went to Apple Store, and they told me 3 days for repair but I never get any email/tel contacts after a week and their online status remained "repairing". Until I call them back, they told me they contacted and I didn't pick up their phone.

Now after 2 months, I found a video quality issue on their FaceTime camera (with sunlight, same issue): https://imgur.com/a/AQTOw

Has anyone with the same experience?

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