141–150 of 217 posts
Earlier quoted context omitted.
CS majors are also doing 2-4 internships which are by and large more formational experiences than a bootcamp. I don't know where you work that a developer working "only" 50h weeks is "generous" but I hope I never find myself applying there.
My internship experience was what made CS click, rather than the curriculum itself. Agree that they're a critical ingredient. :)
Earlier quoted context omitted.
58% of classroom graduates making $74,447 average seems better than most universities out there. Too bad they had to lie about it.
Most universities teach something besides tech. I assure you, a bootcamp for European medieval history will not produce average salaries of $73,000.
That's like saying coding bootcamps don't produce chefs. Different goals for different programs.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
58% of classroom graduates making $74,447 average seems better than most universities out there. Too bad they had to lie about it.
Is it better than a university CS degree?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Most universities teach something besides tech. I assure you, a bootcamp for European medieval history will not produce average salaries of $73,000.
your logic makes no sense. That's like saying coding bootcamps don't produce chefs. Different goals for different programs.
The parent poster is comparing how successful universities are at getting their graduates well-paying jobs, compared to how successful coding bootcamps are at getting their graduates well-paying jobs.
I point out that this is an unreasonable comparison. University averages are dragged down by low-earning, low-employable majors.
(One may conclude that going to university for the sake of a low-wage, low-employable major is worthless. To which I will have to ask - how well do you think software engineers will be paid, if the 20 million current American college students were to switch their major to comp sci tomorrow?)
Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's other ways of manipulating the numbers too. I attended App Academy, but as an "auditing student" meaning I paid the same price and did the same work but, according to the information, I might not get a pair to program with if the classroom count was odd. However, I'd bet a shiny nickel that auditing students aren't part of their advertised statistics. Or at least auditing students that don't make the numbers…
I too will chime in! I attended App Academy as well, as a fulltime student in New York a couple years ago. Between my cohort, the cohort before and the cohort after, I would say it was something like 80% of people were placed in fulltime jobs by three months. I was one of the last to be employed (we graduated in late Feb, I was finally working by the end of June). A few people had jobs before the whole 12 weeks were…
Also, I find it suspicious that App Academy seemingly isn't taking part in CIRR.
Back in 2014, coding bootcamps were advertising rates in the 90s. See https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-job-placement-rates-at-va... . From that post, this is what the director of admissions at Fullstack Academy claims are the job placement rates of some popular bootcamps: - Fullstack Academy: 97% - Hack Reactor: 99% - App Academy: 98% - Dev Bootcamp: 90% - Flatiron School: 98% (He edited his post to take this down…
There is also market saturation. My brother took the GA bootcamp in 2013, I took it in 2014. The outcomes were drastically different because their hiring partners/relationships couldn't keep up with their output. When he took it, they had a speed-dating event at the end of the course where employers had already signed up to take on an intern, i.e. 100% job placement. One year later, my class had nothing more than a m…
Why are students willing to pay so much to for-profit coding boot camps? In many areas you can learn the same skills from community colleges and university extensions for far lower tuition. For example in the Bay Area the UCSC Extension has a good reputation and offers several certificate programs in software development. https://www.ucsc-extension.edu/certificate-program/software-...
That bootcamps produce similar graduates as (community) colleges in less time is up for discussion, but having to fudge your numbers as FlatIron has done doesn't necessarily move the debate in your favor.
Why are students willing to pay so much to for-profit coding boot camps? In many areas you can learn the same skills from community colleges and university extensions for far lower tuition. For example in the Bay Area the UCSC Extension has a good reputation and offers several certificate programs in software development. https://www.ucsc-extension.edu/certificate-program/software-...
I know people I've talked to (work with a similar company) feel the weight of family duty very heavily with career decisions. Having children or other family to be responsible for is one of the things that holds people back. Child care is incredibly expensive and having to carry that burden on your own can be very taxing and can get in the way of your work if you're at home.
Shorter runway to earn more is a much more desirable option.
Does anyone have a recommendation for a good bootcamp? I have an employee (graphic design) that has shown an aptitude in web development, but I do not have the time to devote to mentoring him. I can afford to send him to a bootcamp, but stories like this make me hesitant. Also, I have a front-end guy and a CS intern, who both could benefit from a SQL bootcamp (as another poster mentioned, team development, source con…
The answer is Hack Reactor or bust. Don't bother with any of the tier 2/3 Bootcamps such as general assembly, ect.
Hi Joseph,
On Friday the New York Attorney General announced a settlement with Flatiron School. In the press release, they discussed our licensure and our student outcomes. Everyone at Flatiron School and our community has felt this deeply and we wanted to speak to you directly.
Regarding our license - we’ve been working with the NY State licensing agency for nearly four years. We were licensed in our Brooklyn location. We also sent in an application for our Manhattan location. It was only when we reached out about an extension for the Manhattan location a year later that we found out that the application was never processed. We immediately filed the appropriate paperwork and have since been licensed by NY State.
The second issue was about our student outcomes. We present data on our website in aggregate, such as our 98.5% employment rate for graduates. The Attorney General felt a link labeled “Download our Outcomes Report” next to “98.5% employment rate” taking you to the full breakdown of jobs was not “Clear and Conspicuous”. We understand that in our efforts to be transparent, we exposed ourselves to a new level of scrutiny and we will live up to that in the future. Here’s an example from our settlement:
The NYAG finds that Flatiron’s claim that 98.5% of its graduates are employed in the software engineering field within 180 days of graduating, does not clearly and conspicuously disclose that “employed” includes not only full time salaried positions, but also paid apprentices, contract employees and self-employed/freelance employees. This information was available by clicking on the “Download Our Outcomes Report” link and entering an email address in order to download a multi-page report that contains graduation and employment rate information. The NYAG finds that labeling the link “Download Our Outcomes Report” did not sufficiently convey that it contains information relevant to the employment calculation.
We're proud of all of you and have shared your success on our website to inspire others. Ultimately, we know that the concerns of our students and community are about the truth of our outcome data. We want to restate, unequivocally, that our reports are accurate and have not been falsified. In fact, the Attorney General explicitly agreed that we can continue using all of our historical reports and you can find them on our website today.
That’s really it. We understand how it’s been easy for these important details to become lost in the public discussion around this settlement. We’re most sorry for the way this affects our community of students and alumni. Learning to code is hard enough and thinking of the distraction this causes breaks our hearts.
I encourage any alumni reading this to focus on what matters - themselves, their code, their work, and their community. We are going to do everything in our power to make sure this does not blemish your journey. We hope you still feel proud that your journey began at Flatiron School, we still feel it a privilege to have been part of your lives. We will continue teaching passionate people how to code and helping them find the jobs they love. We are excited about the future of the school.
If you have any questions about this, please do reach out. We always love to hear from our alumni.
Learn, Love, Code // Avi Flombaum and Adam Enbar