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Just own the damn robots

thereformedbroker.com

21–30 of 356 posts

Re: Just own the damn robots

#21
I just don't buy it. I understand I'm in a minority, so let me indulge myself and explain, for a moment, why I think AI / Robots are nothing to worry about.

My claim is: Robots will not replace humans in all jobs. Further, it's more than because of Human preference, I think that Robots will lack cognitive abilities that we have.

My expectation is that in each area where they are deficient then they may well become a tool for a Human overseer, and that might replace some workers.

I don't believe AI will effectively deal with:

1) Cultural concerns. e.g. Appropriate imagery in advertising.

2) Major strategic considerations when faced with an uncertain future. (Physical war, trade war, geopolitical events, natural disasters).

3) Legal frameworks, as they are not well defined.

4) Human relationships. e.g. Don't make Alice and Bob work together.

5) Intuitive leaps. e.g. Rubics cube.

6) Empathy.

The reason I believe this is not because I believe in a soul, or anything mystical, but because I believe that the nature of our brains, our senses, our learning experiences, and the evolutionary processes that got us here can not be matched by our technology.

I think this means Robots / AI will not independently create new businesses, new products, build factories, kit out factories, buy other robots, produce marketing, deal with customer services, returns, courts, investors, regulators, suppliers and so on.

I can imagine products that will exist forever, like, rope, or cutlery, or plates, and someone automating a factory to produce these commodities. But they will still use humans to manage product development, supplier and customer relations, advertising and security, and, probably, looking after the robots.

I think that Robots / AI will at best become a tool for people to use, but the power will remain with Human employees.

Re: Just own the damn robots

#22
Why not just seize the means of production? Private (real) property is ultimately rooted in the theft of the commons. This has historically been justified using two assertions: that people don't value what they don't own, and that nobody does anything except for profit. Both are highly questionable, yet when counterexamples are offered they are generally dismissed as 'the exception that proves the rule' or some equally irrational rhetoric.

Our existing economic paradigms are demonstrably flawed. Just as feudalism tried to restrain the creative forces of capitalism but eventually collapsed, capitalism is arguably restraining the creative forces of (socialism, participativism, something we haven't got a good name for yet). We are familiar with many of the potential pitfalls - excessive bureaucracy and various flavors of authoritarianism - but have yet to fully systematize the desirable alternatives of open source culture. Perhaps what is needed is a general theory of economic networking that incorporates lateral as well as hierarchical structures.

Re: Just own the damn robots

#23
post #8

"We’re in an age where we’re being told AI is about to start writing its own software." The most pregnant sentence in the entire piece.

I've been thinking about this more this year.

Earlier this year, I finished watching "Person of Interest" (maybe not ironically) on Netflix.

So far we've been applying ML/DL to problems like image recognition, which has produced quite useful products. But these things are still far away from Artificial General Intelligence.

And I've been studying AI / AGI research for decades as well. In the early years, there was an emphasis on formal systems, that could logically infer the sidewalk was wet because it rained last night. More recently, we've seen research like Hierarchical Temporal Memory which attempt to address how the human brain processes information.

Anyway... these approaches aren't the only ways forward.

When you think about it, one thing we might want for an AGI is really just a software system that can improve itself (gaining new abilities), with increasingly less and less human supervision.

I'm thinking of a giant codebase, not just a big library, but more on the order of the entirety of Python code in open-source projects. The entire ecosystem. And then adding methods for it to self-improve. For example, scanning through the codebase looking for bad style or other obvious bugs. And then automatically fixing them.

The next step would be to give it the ability to automatically process certain kinds of information. It would scan an input document (file), and try to figure out what it is (HTML, CSV, whatever), and then try to match that to the kind of output which is required. And then try to find transforms in its own codebase which can accomplish this for the sample input / output.

The next steps get more difficult where it is analyzing its own codebase not just for problems, but it understand the meaning. Maybe it can annotate it's own codebase with more meta-information. For example this function foobar() has a string argument, but it isn't just a string, it is supposed to be a street address.

And at some point, getting the system to write code to solve new problems.

I've looked at a bit of research in this particular direction, but didn't really find much.

Re: Just own the damn robots

#24

I just don't buy it. I understand I'm in a minority, so let me indulge myself and explain, for a moment, why I think AI / Robots are nothing to worry about. My claim is: Robots will not replace humans in all jobs. Further, it's more than because of Human preference, I think that Robots will lack cognitive abilities that we have. My expectation is that in each area where they are deficient then they may well become a…

Humans aren't so complicated that an AI won't be able to model those things you've listed.

Re: Just own the damn robots

#25

Why not just seize the means of production? Private (real) property is ultimately rooted in the theft of the commons. This has historically been justified using two assertions: that people don't value what they don't own, and that nobody does anything except for profit. Both are highly questionable, yet when counterexamples are offered they are generally dismissed as 'the exception that proves the rule' or some equal…

Because you'll be shot, probably by a robot.

Re: Just own the damn robots

#26

I just don't buy it. I understand I'm in a minority, so let me indulge myself and explain, for a moment, why I think AI / Robots are nothing to worry about. My claim is: Robots will not replace humans in all jobs. Further, it's more than because of Human preference, I think that Robots will lack cognitive abilities that we have. My expectation is that in each area where they are deficient then they may well become a…

I work in business development in the public sector. First we did digitzation, turning paper archives into something digital. Then we started standardizing and connecting the archives while improving worker interaction with them. These days we're doing automation.

None of this has led to people getting fired. It has cost a massive amount of jobs though. All unnoticed because we simply didn't rehire for positions when someone retired because the digitization hadn't eaten whole workflows but only 5 minutes here and there.

The next thing we're going to do is AI. We've already begun the proofs of concepts. We've gone through 6 million case files with 5-70 page documents, and sorted them in a particular way. A process which too 25 full time jobs half a year to do. Our proof of concept AI and 1000 servers in azure, did the same thing in 5 hours.

Computers didn't really change the office landscape like robots did to the assembly lines. AI will.

At one point in our history, one of the most important jobs in a large city, was removing the endless tones of horse shit from the streets every day. Cars made those guys as obsolete as AI will do almost everything.

Sure there will be new jobs as well, but technology stopped creating more jobs than it ate almost 10 years ago, and it's an exponential curve.

Re: Just own the damn robots

#27

I just don't buy it. I understand I'm in a minority, so let me indulge myself and explain, for a moment, why I think AI / Robots are nothing to worry about. My claim is: Robots will not replace humans in all jobs. Further, it's more than because of Human preference, I think that Robots will lack cognitive abilities that we have. My expectation is that in each area where they are deficient then they may well become a…

Trouble is, there's a bunch of people out there who have no aptitude for those things, and have neither the desire nor the means to acquire that aptitude, and/or don't have the means to sell this aptitude for enough money for bare necessities.

What do they do?

This isn't a rhetorical question, I don't know the answer, and I'm kept up at night for the coming storm.

Re: Just own the damn robots

#29

I just don't buy it. I understand I'm in a minority, so let me indulge myself and explain, for a moment, why I think AI / Robots are nothing to worry about. My claim is: Robots will not replace humans in all jobs. Further, it's more than because of Human preference, I think that Robots will lack cognitive abilities that we have. My expectation is that in each area where they are deficient then they may well become a…

I'm unsure how you would expect humans to do better with cultural concerns or strategy in the face of uncertainty. We're known for routinely making mistakes in both of these domains - just look at POTUS for a case study.

Computers can already infer sentiment, not to mention recognize patterns extremely well, and are likely trainable to provide example feedback to any given cultural current. Is culture really any more diffuse than something like conversation, which computers already do reasonably well?

Furthermore, it seems odd to suggest that computers would have trouble in numbers games like war/trade war/resource allocation. These are essentially reducible to games, and with Go out the way, it doesn't seem that figuring out the best tariffs to pass or best places to bomb would require much more logic.

Maybe I'm being naive, but I think your conceptions of the limitations of machines are founded on essentially nothing. There's little, philosophically or scientifically, in the way of physicalist/functionalist conceptions of the mind that supports your viewpoints!

There's little reason to doubt, in my eyes, that our brains are extremely complex machines, running on electrical impulses and neurotransmitters, to produce responses to stimuli. As such, I don't see why you would privilege our machines over another machine. Why is our learning experience different from that of a machine? Do we not learn from trial-and-error, from explicit (social) rule-programming, from inference? Is evolution really at odds with computers? Some ML algorithms already boast "evolutionary" traits. And are our 5 senses really so sharp? What about beings who "see" all EM radiation or feel rumblings deep in the earth, like a seismograph does?

Re: Just own the damn robots

#30
post #5

Interesting investment thesis, but isn't there a better way to hedge yourself than buying tech stocks? That's just a huge bet on a tiny number of cyclical revenue sources: online shopping, online advertising, cloud services, iPhones, Microsoft Office, and Windows.

What will that tech need to survive? Lithium, for batteries. Heavy metals, for processing. Energy, most of all. I wonder how long it'll be until we replace fiat currencies with a balance of kilowatt-hours.

Energy is the currency of the future.

- CEO Nwabudike Morgan, "The Centauri Monopoly"

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