Why Are Millennials Wary of Freedom? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Are Millennials Wary of Freedom?

#61

Post by randomdata » Mon, Oct 16, 2017, 10:18 PM UTC

tempYeez wrote: post #35

randomdata wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are costs so high in the US? As a Canadian, where things are said to be more expensive than in the US, $30K CAD (~$24K USD) is more than enough for a person without dependents to live quite comfortably. The median income in the US is not far off $30K[1], so what do half the population do? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_...

Well you math is not very accurate when it comes to fees. So even without college. A car would cost 8k, rent would be around 6k, health care would be 2.4k, food at 250 a month is 2.7k. That alone is 20k. This doesn't include entertainment expenses let alone emergency like actually getting sick.

What math of mine are you referring to? The $30K figure comes from the link.

Re: Why Are Millennials Wary of Freedom?

#62

Post by mythrwy » Mon, Oct 16, 2017, 10:19 PM UTC

I'm not a millennial but are they really wary of freedom?

I do see anti-free speech comments from time to time but always assumed that was a hangover from the indoctrination of the public school system.

What maybe Millennials see clearer than anyone else (because of the Internet?) is that the system appears rigged. Which is nothing new, it has been since we came down out of the trees. A few people have always recognized and fought against this. It's probably what your mom meant when she said "Life isn't fair". But back to the topic, perhaps Millenials aren't against freedom so much as they are aware that "freedom" is actually the illusion of freedom and doesn't work in their best interest. IDK, just my guesses. The anti-free speech thing is a bit disturbing to me though.

Re: Why Are Millennials Wary of Freedom?

#63

Post by aaron-lebo » Mon, Oct 16, 2017, 10:20 PM UTC

slezakattack wrote: post #50

aaron-lebo wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've lived on that, so try again. Why do you believe that's crazy? $500 apt $150 car insurance $100 utilities $ 50 media (Netflix, Spotify, etc) You're taking home about $1800 a month, so that still leaves another $1000 to fill out the rest (food, gasoline, etc). That's plenty of money. You aren't going to be making regular trips to Hawaii, but that's more than enough to do whatever you'd like.

The apartment complex i lived in while in Rapid City, South Dakota was $650 (2011-2012)...How many places in the US do you think have $500 rent where you need no roommates, completely functional (A/C, heat, working kitchen), in a low-crime area?

My friend today lives in an apt with all that (not an efficiency) at $650 a month. I had another friend who was in a less accessible (but still nice) location for $500, I've lived in a $450 apt. They are available in some locations.

Re: Why Are Millennials Wary of Freedom?

#64

Post by Bromskloss » Mon, Oct 16, 2017, 10:20 PM UTC

wfo wrote: post #38

Because freedom has failed them. Or, at least, "freedom" as defined implicitly by the author to mean "only a specifically enumerated list of negative freedoms that primarily benefit the wealthy" and "the ability to cast a vote which fundamentally does not matter" -- remember the adage "if voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal". Millenials don't feel particularly free to speak when they live in permanent deb…

> But it's ridiculous to say a homeless person is "free" because the cops don't arrest and harass him for speaking his mind.

Shouldn't we rather say that he is free, but that there are _other_ things lacking in his life?

Let's not load the word _freedom_ with everything that is good in this world. Being free doesn't guarantee having happiness, food, clothes, friends, health, a successful career, and so on. If we want to talk about all that, there is probably a better word for it. Besides, what word would we use in its place?

Re: Why Are Millennials Wary of Freedom?

#65

Post by mythrwy » Mon, Oct 16, 2017, 10:21 PM UTC

randyrand wrote: post #23

Here's another question. Why is the quality of journalism from the New York Times getting worse and worse?

Because you have so much more to compare it to now?

Re: Why Are Millennials Wary of Freedom?

#66

Post by willismichael » Mon, Oct 16, 2017, 10:21 PM UTC

noobermin wrote: post #15

aaron-lebo wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much disposable income do you need to be free? Cheap car, cheap rent, every form of media ever for about $50 a month. You can do that easily on 30k. If you can't make 30k a year, you've got a limited skillset, it's not anyone else's fault. What's amazing for US millenials in particular is just how much we've got and how little we appreciate it.

You are extremely ignorant of the cost of living in the US if you think 30K is enough to live on.

The US is a big place, not everybody feels like they have to live in the Bay Area or some other place with a similarly ludicrous cost of living.

Re: Why Are Millennials Wary of Freedom?

#67

Post by ithilglin909 » Mon, Oct 16, 2017, 10:23 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #42

ithilglin909 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being sick of bullshit is fine. Having the government regulate bull-shitting is a huge step towards tyranny.

> Having the government regulate bull-shitting is a huge step towards tyranny. And yet, we've had libel and slander laws forever. The government has never not regulated bullshitting, all serious debate is over the precise boundaries, not whether it should be done. Maybe Millenials are just more honest about it, and decline to label regulation that does only what they are happy with as “Free Speech”.

I don’t disagree that saying we have “Free Speech” in America is a bit of an overstatement, but the article wasn’t taking about millennials simple wanting to do away with the phrase “Free Speech”. It states many would be in favor of regulating speech simply for its capacity to offend.

Re: Why Are Millennials Wary of Freedom?

#68

Post by dang » Mon, Oct 16, 2017, 10:25 PM UTC

manbearpigg wrote: post #24

The Founding Fathers of the United States said, everyone will be free to do whatever he pleases. It produced the greatest culture, the greatest technology, and the greatest generation in the history of this planet. Leftists came along and said, I'd rather hold a gun to the head of people who produce wealth and make them give me some. That's why they don't like freedom.

This sort of ideological rant is just what HN is not for, as the site guidelines explain: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

Since we've warned you about this before and you didn't stop, I've banned this account.

Re: Why Are Millennials Wary of Freedom?

#69

Post by Bromskloss » Mon, Oct 16, 2017, 10:26 PM UTC

mabub24 wrote: post #45

hashmal wrote: post #3

Random thoughts: - Freedom and democracy are different things, if some people think democracy isn't that important, it does not mean they do not value freedom. - Maybe the millenials are "not open to diverse opinions", but maybe they're just sick of bullshit. "Free Speech" can be interpreted in different ways (and each country in the world does that).

I disagree with your first thought. I'll say this as someone who is unabashedly a fan of democracy. I love democracy (I would call myself a "democrat" except for the connotation with the American party). I think devaluing democracy exhibits a profound devaluation of freedom. Democracy is more than just casting a vote. Many non-democracies have elections. Democracies are an elegant and fragile relationship between civ…

> I think devaluing democracy exhibits a profound devaluation of freedom.

Doesn't that depend on what you would have instead? You could have either a more concentrated power and a less concentrated power.

Re: Why Are Millennials Wary of Freedom?

#70

Post by Veratyr » Mon, Oct 16, 2017, 10:35 PM UTC

mabub24 wrote: post #45

hashmal wrote: post #3

Random thoughts: - Freedom and democracy are different things, if some people think democracy isn't that important, it does not mean they do not value freedom. - Maybe the millenials are "not open to diverse opinions", but maybe they're just sick of bullshit. "Free Speech" can be interpreted in different ways (and each country in the world does that).

I disagree with your first thought. I'll say this as someone who is unabashedly a fan of democracy. I love democracy (I would call myself a "democrat" except for the connotation with the American party). I think devaluing democracy exhibits a profound devaluation of freedom. Democracy is more than just casting a vote. Many non-democracies have elections. Democracies are an elegant and fragile relationship between civ…

I disagree with most of this. Democracy is merely a form of government. People can be free and not democratically governed.

Yes a functional society must have laws but say you have two societies with the same set of laws, one generated by dictatorial benevolent AI overlords and one generated by democracy. Are the people in the AI-governed society less free, even when subject to the same rules and restrictions?

I think no, they're not less free. That would mean that democracy is important to freedom only if it's the only way to generate that set of rules and I don't think it is. The right dictator can come up with the same rules as a democratic government.