Why Are Millennials Wary of Freedom? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Are Millennials Wary of Freedom?

#41

Post by asabjorn » Mon, Oct 16, 2017, 10:06 PM UTC

hashmal wrote: post #3

Random thoughts: - Freedom and democracy are different things, if some people think democracy isn't that important, it does not mean they do not value freedom. - Maybe the millenials are "not open to diverse opinions", but maybe they're just sick of bullshit. "Free Speech" can be interpreted in different ways (and each country in the world does that).

Various collapsed democracies can testament that defining away the free part of free speech to be a path to authoritarianism, and the first step towards collapse is punishing opinions that disagrees with dogma (e.g Venezuela). In the end it leads to a less efficient country driven by dogma instead of progress.

I think this line of thinking stems from the belief that democracy is the default state, and that it can withstand suppressing voices that disagrees with the dogma someone fights for.

Re: Why Are Millennials Wary of Freedom?

#42

Post by dragonwriter » Mon, Oct 16, 2017, 10:06 PM UTC

ithilglin909 wrote: post #6

hashmal wrote: post #3

Random thoughts: - Freedom and democracy are different things, if some people think democracy isn't that important, it does not mean they do not value freedom. - Maybe the millenials are "not open to diverse opinions", but maybe they're just sick of bullshit. "Free Speech" can be interpreted in different ways (and each country in the world does that).

Being sick of bullshit is fine. Having the government regulate bull-shitting is a huge step towards tyranny.

> Having the government regulate bull-shitting is a huge step towards tyranny.

And yet, we've had libel and slander laws forever. The government has never not regulated bullshitting, all serious debate is over the precise boundaries, not whether it should be done.

Maybe Millenials are just more honest about it, and decline to label regulation that does only what they are happy with as “Free Speech”.

Re: Why Are Millennials Wary of Freedom?

#43

Post by tempYeez » Mon, Oct 16, 2017, 10:06 PM UTC

aaron-lebo wrote: post #19

noobermin wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are extremely ignorant of the cost of living in the US if you think 30K is enough to live on.

I've lived on that, so try again. Why do you believe that's crazy? $500 apt $150 car insurance $100 utilities $ 50 media (Netflix, Spotify, etc) You're taking home about $1800 a month, so that still leaves another $1000 to fill out the rest (food, gasoline, etc). That's plenty of money. You aren't going to be making regular trips to Hawaii, but that's more than enough to do whatever you'd like.

That leaves you 700 bucks a month not including the 15% taxes. Once issue and you'd be living month to month as soon as anything actually happened.

Re: Why Are Millennials Wary of Freedom?

#44

Post by clavalle » Mon, Oct 16, 2017, 10:07 PM UTC

randyrand wrote: post #23

Here's another question. Why is the quality of journalism from the New York Times getting worse and worse?

It's an opinion piece by a psychologist.

Re: Why Are Millennials Wary of Freedom?

#45

Post by mabub24 » Mon, Oct 16, 2017, 10:07 PM UTC

hashmal wrote: post #3

Random thoughts: - Freedom and democracy are different things, if some people think democracy isn't that important, it does not mean they do not value freedom. - Maybe the millenials are "not open to diverse opinions", but maybe they're just sick of bullshit. "Free Speech" can be interpreted in different ways (and each country in the world does that).

I disagree with your first thought. I'll say this as someone who is unabashedly a fan of democracy. I love democracy (I would call myself a "democrat" except for the connotation with the American party). I think devaluing democracy exhibits a profound devaluation of freedom.

Democracy is more than just casting a vote. Many non-democracies have elections. Democracies are an elegant and fragile relationship between civic will and laws.

The outcome of a desire for freedom is democracy. You don't start with democracy or install it, people create it and protect it with laws that protect personal freedoms. Most countries with alternate political systems have citizens with less freedoms and rule by law rather than rule of law: you end up with legalism, like in China.

If people feel that democracy is failing them than I would suggest that that exemplifies a shift in profound ideas about freedom that leads to democracy.

From the perspective of a relatively functioning democracy, all other political systems should look worse, should look less free.

Re: Why Are Millennials Wary of Freedom?

#46

Post by yahna » Mon, Oct 16, 2017, 10:07 PM UTC

aaron-lebo wrote: post #19

noobermin wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are extremely ignorant of the cost of living in the US if you think 30K is enough to live on.

I've lived on that, so try again. Why do you believe that's crazy? $500 apt $150 car insurance $100 utilities $ 50 media (Netflix, Spotify, etc) You're taking home about $1800 a month, so that still leaves another $1000 to fill out the rest (food, gasoline, etc). That's plenty of money. You aren't going to be making regular trips to Hawaii, but that's more than enough to do whatever you'd like.

> 500 apt

My shitty apartment in a small city (80k) was 615 a month.

100 dollars a month for gas/water/power?

You need internet for that media consumption.

You need gas for that car.

Cell phone?

Food?

Re: Why Are Millennials Wary of Freedom?

#47

Post by aaron-lebo » Mon, Oct 16, 2017, 10:08 PM UTC

tempYeez wrote: post #43

aaron-lebo wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've lived on that, so try again. Why do you believe that's crazy? $500 apt $150 car insurance $100 utilities $ 50 media (Netflix, Spotify, etc) You're taking home about $1800 a month, so that still leaves another $1000 to fill out the rest (food, gasoline, etc). That's plenty of money. You aren't going to be making regular trips to Hawaii, but that's more than enough to do whatever you'd like.

That leaves you 700 bucks a month not including the 15% taxes. Once issue and you'd be living month to month as soon as anything actually happened.

That's with taxes taken out. Pre-taxes it is $2500 a month. Most people are an issue away from month to month.

Re: Why Are Millennials Wary of Freedom?

#48

Post by tempYeez » Mon, Oct 16, 2017, 10:09 PM UTC

aaron-lebo wrote: post #37

tempYeez wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Insurance, college loans, food, taxes. Yeh I can't image you live in the US if you think you can have that for 30k a year. It would take 30k in disposable income which would be around 75k+ and thats for a small town.

I had all of that for 30k a year, 20 minutes from a major population center. I wasn't paying back college loans (yet), but you can only do so much on 30k. It's a lot, though...

Well in the US you can't really choose when to pay those loans back. Not to mention for the type of car you'd be able to afford if it breaks down it would easily wipe that 700 dollars out. Go forbid you got sick. An emergency bill would run 3 months income.

Re: Why Are Millennials Wary of Freedom?

#49

Post by twiceaday » Mon, Oct 16, 2017, 10:09 PM UTC

yahna wrote: post #33

the_gastropod wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suggest that you may be a bit out of touch. Over 40% of Americans earn under $30k per year [1]. And many more choose to live on this much. Ralph Nader, for example, lives on $25,000 per year [2], and accomplishes far more than anyone I personally know. [1] https://dqydj.com/income-percentile-calculator/ [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Nader#Personality_and_ch...

and do those people live lifestyles I would want?

Perhaps people are being trained by their culture to seek lifestyles that are not affordable to most people?

Re: Why Are Millennials Wary of Freedom?

#50

Post by slezakattack » Mon, Oct 16, 2017, 10:09 PM UTC

aaron-lebo wrote: post #19

noobermin wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are extremely ignorant of the cost of living in the US if you think 30K is enough to live on.

I've lived on that, so try again. Why do you believe that's crazy? $500 apt $150 car insurance $100 utilities $ 50 media (Netflix, Spotify, etc) You're taking home about $1800 a month, so that still leaves another $1000 to fill out the rest (food, gasoline, etc). That's plenty of money. You aren't going to be making regular trips to Hawaii, but that's more than enough to do whatever you'd like.

The apartment complex i lived in while in Rapid City, South Dakota was $650 (2011-2012)...How many places in the US do you think have $500 rent where you need no roommates, completely functional (A/C, heat, working kitchen), in a low-crime area?