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New Research on How Ride-Hailing Impacts Travel Behavior

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Re: New Research on How Ride-Hailing Impacts Travel Behavior

#241

Post by colechristensen »

khuey wrote: post #230
colechristensen wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The problem is that your car-driving case presumes the driver already wants to go to MV and is bringing his friends and they don’t mind coordinating to make that happen. This doesn't really make sense. My original point is that for me personally going alone, it is cheaper to drive than to use public transit. If I bring friends it is _much_ cheaper. At this moment I could take a CalTrain to SF for $33/person or a 4 p…

Caltrain is not cheap but even a one way fare to SF from the end of the line in Gilroy is only $15.

You're right, I didn't double the Uber cost for a round trip

Re: New Research on How Ride-Hailing Impacts Travel Behavior

#242

Post by Broken_Hippo »

serf wrote: post #225
Impossible wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In many smaller towns, and even larger cities where taxies are not common, this isn't an option. When I lived in Mesa years ago I'd call cab services multiple times and they'd just never show up. Many smaller towns just don't have taxi services.

It's espescially cruel when you consider that rural/small towns are usually the ones least set up for pedestrian traffic. Not only are there no taxis/uber/buses , there are no sidewalks, street lights, few traffic signals, etc.

Even worse, if you do walk after the bars close, you are more likely to get stopped by the police simply because you are out walking. Living a mile outside the city, you can get stopped because you are walking on the side of the major road. You are supposed to take the slower route through the countryside.

Re: New Research on How Ride-Hailing Impacts Travel Behavior

#243

Post by MAGZine »

colechristensen wrote: post #224
jblow wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that your car-driving case presumes the driver already wants to go to MV and is bringing his friends and they don’t mind coordinating to make that happen. If you change your thought-experiment to a paid service, good luck being cheaper than CalTrain.

>The problem is that your car-driving case presumes the driver already wants to go to MV and is bringing his friends and they don’t mind coordinating to make that happen. This doesn't really make sense. My original point is that for me personally going alone, it is cheaper to drive than to use public transit. If I bring friends it is _much_ cheaper. At this moment I could take a CalTrain to SF for $33/person or a 4 p…

I'm unconvinced by your arguments, while I can understand (and agree) with some of the points you're making, I don't think it's as cut and dry as you make it.

CalTrain is $7.70 from MV to SF[0], not $33/person (or $16.5/person in your original comment). Or, you can get a montly pass for $215.

You don't need to wait on trains if you get your schedule down. They're VERY timely in my experience (caltrain). It is true that a car grants you the ability to fuck around and not worry if you'll miss the train. Especially during heavy commute periods, there are trains every 5-10 minutes.

Now, lets consider other pieces.

Depending on the vehicle you drive, where you park (how much it costs/inconvenience), insurance, maintenance, fuel, and potentially a lease, I have a difficult time in seeing how that would come up to less than $215/mo.

Fuel: SF to MV is 40 miles. A honda civic advertises 40mpg, so you use about a gallon of fuel in one direction. You go two directions each day if you're commuting. We'll call fuel $3/gallon, since you can find it both cheaper and more expensive in the bay. So, $6 worth of fuel for a day. 4.5 (weeks per month) x 5 (working days in week) x $6 = $135 in fuel costs alone, with no traffic (fuel/time/inconvienence costs). Running through a quick Progressive Insurance thing, I find that the insurance for a 2015 Civic is $62/mo for the base option[1]. Maintenance is $18/mo[2]. And there you have it, a vehicle for commuting is more expensive than a monthly pass alone. Excluding parking, the upfront cost of the vehicle, etc.

Yes, the tragedy of transit is that it's more expensive when you travel in groups. Few transit systems have actually tried to address this from my limited experience.

[0] http://www.caltrain.com/Fares/farechart.html [1] https://imgur.com/a/uS5CV [2] https://www.yourmechanic.com/estimates/honda/civic

Re: New Research on How Ride-Hailing Impacts Travel Behavior

#244

Post by pdx6 »

ecesena wrote: post #2

In SF a bus ride used to cost 2.25$, and I think it’s now 2.50$. Lyft line most of the time is 4$ + 1$ for an extra passenger. Uber is probably similar and perhaps cheaper, I don’t know. In short, there’s no benefit in using busses anymore.

The cost is indexed, so the price really hasn’t changed. Don’t forget that there is a flat rate pass, and most 50+ person companies offer the passes pre-tax. In addition, TNC pricing doesn’t have federally mandated discounts for seniors, disabled, youth, and low income.

Re: New Research on How Ride-Hailing Impacts Travel Behavior

#245

Post by HillaryBriss »

ibejoeb wrote: post #155
abalone wrote: post #107

tl;dr People use ridesharing mostly to go out to eat and drink (62% of trips). Riders are actually more likely to own cars. They don't want to drive when they're going out because they don't want to deal with parking or drive drunk. They don't ride the bus because it's too slow, unreliable or unavailable. If ridesharing didn't exist, two fifths of the time they'd walk, bike or use public transit instead, and a fifth…

That all seems like a net positive to me, especially in major urban areas that a very car dependent like Los Angles, Atlanta, Houston... In LA, driving drunk was just the way of life, and it was a real problem. Now, I don't know anyone who prefers driving over ridesharing given the option. Uber Pool makes getting from the east side to the west side faster that public transit for about $10-15, which is less than 1 dri…

> driving drunk was just the way of life, and it was a real problem. Now, I don't know anyone who prefers driving over ridesharing given the option.

drunk driving in LA is still a real problem. law enforcement continues to conduct DUI checkpoints on a regular basis. and they catch drunk drivers.

maybe you don't know the people who continue to drink and drive?

Re: New Research on How Ride-Hailing Impacts Travel Behavior

#246

Post by Broken_Hippo »

DrScump wrote: post #73
brianwawok wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. A faster / better / cheaper train or bus takes cars directly off the road. So you can add more subways / trains / buses / etc. to do this.

Adding more units, where existing units are underutilized , makes no sense.

That depends why units are underutilized, though. If the train + bus system doesn't get you close to where you need to go, it might not be worth your time to use. If it takes too long, again, won't be worth the time. If they can't get you to work on time or stop running before you are off work? Again, not worth your time to use them.

In all of these cases, a good answer is to have more convenient public transport - and that usually means adding more units.

Other problems have other solutions, like adding tolls to congested areas, subsidizing public transportation so the fares are low enough for people to afford or choose it over driving, or increasing private vehicle ownership costs.

Re: New Research on How Ride-Hailing Impacts Travel Behavior

#247

Post by untog »

isostatic wrote: post #226
smsm42 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's not only luggage. There are groceries. There are other purchases. There's just a strain of standing on your feet for an hour, which may not be easy for someone who is not in the peak physical condition.

Standing up for an hour does not require a "peak of physical fitness"!!! It's probably a good thing to do - that's why standing desks are so popular.

Standing for an hour is absolutely not something you can expect of the general population, especially the elderly.

Re: New Research on How Ride-Hailing Impacts Travel Behavior

#248

Post by akgerber »

colechristensen wrote: post #116
yardie wrote: post #18

I’m a big proponent of mass transit and when it’s available I use it if I can. But I can get Lyft door to door for just $1-2 more than a bus or train. If mass transit wants to keep with rideshare and livery they need to: expand routes, increase availability, update their equipment. When I was a kid I knew how to read a bus schedule and train map to plan my trip. Now, there is an entire generation of kids in school an…

I'm regularly bothered by the fact that mass transit is more expensive than driving. Alone it is definitely cheaper disregarding sunk costs (price of car, etc.), it's still cheaper as long as I don't have to have a new car every few years, and if I have passengers mass transit is many times as expensive as driving. Shouldn't it be the opposite? I figure I can take 4 people from Mountain View to San Francisco and back…

A significant component of this is that your (usually free) parking on both ends of the trip is subsidized by its requirement in local zoning, which increases general costs and subsidizes driving (parking spaces often cost $10,000+ apiece to build, excluding any land cost). The Highway Trust Fund, which pays for interstates, has also been bailed out by general federal funds in recent years, and local roads are usually built and maintained by general local taxation as opposed to any tax on motorists.

Diesel trains with conductors also have high opex as opposed to electric trains.

Plus transporting 4 people in a car is a best-case scenario for auto transport costs. And you seem to be making your estimate either assuming a very low TCO car or by excluding deprecation, maintenance, and insurance, since the IRS estimates the average car costs 54 cents a mile to operate.

Beyond that, cities along the Caltrain line have severely restricted development around train stations and forced it to their fringes along highways, which makes train transportation less practical and auto transportation easier.

Re: New Research on How Ride-Hailing Impacts Travel Behavior

#249

Post by wybiral »

smsm42 wrote: post #140
distances wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drivers not giving change sounds ridiculous. What's the reasoning behind that? In Europe it doesn't seem to be a problem.

Most likely reason is to avoid drivers being robbed - if there's no (easy and accessible for the driver) way to take money out of the thing, local addicts won't get an idea "let's jump on a bus and take money from the driver" because driver can't really give the money. Also a bit of avoiding fraud from driver's side - if the driver is allowed to take money out, it's impossible to control whether all the payments actu…

There are vending machines that can give you change back. They should just pop some of those machines into the bus entrance.

Re: New Research on How Ride-Hailing Impacts Travel Behavior

#250

Post by topynate »

objclxt wrote: post #170
pmichaud wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I stopped using the BART recently because it's dangerous. Several people I know personally have been held up at gunpoint on the BART, or in the station. That's not counting the various news reports, like one [1]. I'll go back when it's safe, but not before then. [1]: http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/BART-takeover-robbery-50...

> I'll go back when it's safe, but not before then. BART is already exceedingly safe. Even with robberies rising 45% this year the overall robbery rate is projected to be 1.7 per million trips[1]. To put it another way, if every time you rode the BART you also bought a CA lottery scratch-card you'd be about as likely to get robbed as you would to win the jackpot (normalized odds for a $2 scratch card: 0.00000167[2],…

That's interesting, because it is quite improbable that someone would "know personally" several lottery winners at ~590000 to 1 odds, even if his acquaintances routinely bought two tickets a day. GP's post is just a single datum, of course, but it's enough in itself to raise doubt about the accuracy of that 1.7/megatrip statistic.

Numerically, suppose GP knows 30 people who make 600 trips on BART each year. In one year, the chance of at least one robbery in that group, given the quoted odds, is three percent. The chance of multiple robberies, i.e. at least two, is under 0.05 percent – over 2000 to 1 odds against. Even over a ten year period, the odds are 25 to 1 against. If GP's personal experience is not unusual, then something is screwy with the stat.

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