New Research on How Ride-Hailing Impacts Travel Behavior • Hacker News Board

Re: New Research on How Ride-Hailing Impacts Travel Behavior

#151

Post by banned1 » Sun, Oct 15, 2017, 7:00 PM UTC

pmichaud wrote: post #110

ng12 wrote: post #6

Gee, it's almost like people only use public transportation when it's reliable, cost-effective, and efficient.

I stopped using the BART recently because it's dangerous. Several people I know personally have been held up at gunpoint on the BART, or in the station. That's not counting the various news reports, like one [1]. I'll go back when it's safe, but not before then. [1]: http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/BART-takeover-robbery-50...

Unfortunately many of these crimes will go unsolved because BART refuses to release videos. Apparently, releasing the videos “could lead to stereotypes”

https://www.google.com/amp/sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2017/07...

Re: New Research on How Ride-Hailing Impacts Travel Behavior

#152

Post by ScottBurson » Sun, Oct 15, 2017, 7:00 PM UTC

colechristensen wrote: post #116

yardie wrote: post #18

I’m a big proponent of mass transit and when it’s available I use it if I can. But I can get Lyft door to door for just $1-2 more than a bus or train. If mass transit wants to keep with rideshare and livery they need to: expand routes, increase availability, update their equipment. When I was a kid I knew how to read a bus schedule and train map to plan my trip. Now, there is an entire generation of kids in school an…

I'm regularly bothered by the fact that mass transit is more expensive than driving. Alone it is definitely cheaper disregarding sunk costs (price of car, etc.), it's still cheaper as long as I don't have to have a new car every few years, and if I have passengers mass transit is many times as expensive as driving. Shouldn't it be the opposite? I figure I can take 4 people from Mountain View to San Francisco and back…

Caltrain doesn't need to compete with multiple-occupancy vehicles. Most of the people riding it would otherwise be driving solo.

That said, reducing fares might attract more riders -- but whether it would increase revenue overall is more questionable.

Re: New Research on How Ride-Hailing Impacts Travel Behavior

#153

Post by smsm42 » Sun, Oct 15, 2017, 7:01 PM UTC

jdavis703 wrote: post #109

smsm42 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even though Uber has been saying that they are improving urban transportation Note here that there are other dimensions of improving, not expressed in VMT. Such as convenience, availability, time to get to certain point, ability to perform certain tasks (e.g. compare traveling with two huge suitcases to/from an airport in public transport with two transfers and in a ride service car), etc. So when talking about imp…

Personal convenience isn't the only definition of what makes transportation better. There's all kinds of negative externalities automobiles generate, from traffic backups, to gaseous emissions, to taking up space that could be used by transportation modes with lighter footprints such as bikes. Not increasing VMT is very important to making cities perform more efficiently, with a lighter footprint.

> Personal convenience isn't the only definition of what makes transportation better.

But this is the only one that would be taken into account by a person when deciding which transportation mode to use. If you don't take it into account, you're making the stats better, but the lives of people worse.

Re: New Research on How Ride-Hailing Impacts Travel Behavior

#154

Post by banned1 » Sun, Oct 15, 2017, 7:01 PM UTC

ggggvg wrote: post #147

pmichaud wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I stopped using the BART recently because it's dangerous. Several people I know personally have been held up at gunpoint on the BART, or in the station. That's not counting the various news reports, like one [1]. I'll go back when it's safe, but not before then. [1]: http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/BART-takeover-robbery-50...

What third-world country do you live in that has such unsafe public transport?

San Francisco

Re: New Research on How Ride-Hailing Impacts Travel Behavior

#155

Post by ibejoeb » Sun, Oct 15, 2017, 7:01 PM UTC

abalone wrote: post #107

tl;dr People use ridesharing mostly to go out to eat and drink (62% of trips). Riders are actually more likely to own cars. They don't want to drive when they're going out because they don't want to deal with parking or drive drunk. They don't ride the bus because it's too slow, unreliable or unavailable. If ridesharing didn't exist, two fifths of the time they'd walk, bike or use public transit instead, and a fifth…

That all seems like a net positive to me, especially in major urban areas that a very car dependent like Los Angles, Atlanta, Houston...

In LA, driving drunk was just the way of life, and it was a real problem. Now, I don't know anyone who prefers driving over ridesharing given the option. Uber Pool makes getting from the east side to the west side faster that public transit for about $10-15, which is less than 1 drink and 1000x less than a DUI.

It is disingenuous to fault ridesharing for public transit's problems. Of course people are going to opt for the most value. We could raise taxes and invest in improvements that may materialize in 10 years, but that's a hard sell when you have a really good option right now.

Re: New Research on How Ride-Hailing Impacts Travel Behavior

#156

Post by sliverstorm » Sun, Oct 15, 2017, 7:01 PM UTC

colechristensen wrote: post #116

yardie wrote: post #18

I’m a big proponent of mass transit and when it’s available I use it if I can. But I can get Lyft door to door for just $1-2 more than a bus or train. If mass transit wants to keep with rideshare and livery they need to: expand routes, increase availability, update their equipment. When I was a kid I knew how to read a bus schedule and train map to plan my trip. Now, there is an entire generation of kids in school an…

I'm regularly bothered by the fact that mass transit is more expensive than driving. Alone it is definitely cheaper disregarding sunk costs (price of car, etc.), it's still cheaper as long as I don't have to have a new car every few years, and if I have passengers mass transit is many times as expensive as driving. Shouldn't it be the opposite? I figure I can take 4 people from Mountain View to San Francisco and back…

Part of the challenge is all of the invisible costs of cars. Repairs & maintenance & tires are usually just as much as gas, but nobody thinks about that. Road maintenance for the city is stupid expensive, parking lots are too. But it's all magicked behind the curtain.

Whereas, with public transit, far more of the costs are represented by the fare.

Re: New Research on How Ride-Hailing Impacts Travel Behavior

#157

Post by harigov » Sun, Oct 15, 2017, 7:03 PM UTC

ProAm wrote: post #142

harigov wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but they are more convenient and comfortable. Doesn't that say something about current public transit thinking? Some People are willing to pay a little bit more if it is convenient and comfortable.

When the subsidies end, will people be willing to pay $10 +1 for the exact same ride vs public transit?

Subsidies are here to accomplish economies of scale. And when they have that scale, the cost of ride will also decrease dramatically (run buses instead of cars, electric cars/buses?), so my bet is that there will be an increase in price but it won't be order of magnitude more than current price.

Re: New Research on How Ride-Hailing Impacts Travel Behavior

#158

Post by CraigRood » Sun, Oct 15, 2017, 7:03 PM UTC

jessriedel wrote: post #22

I'm very interested in the convergence of Lyft-Line/Uber-Pool service with bus service. It's easy to imagine Lyft and Uber running dynamically adjustable bus/van routes -- basically jitneys/peseros that take advantage of smart phones -- that are faster, more reliable, and cheaper than city buses. (Vans are super cheap per passenger if they are always full.) Lyft has taken small steps in this direction by asking Line…

This is not something I've ever thought about but does seem to solve a few concerns. Even in my small town, I can think of many frequently used routes and locations that would benefit from an 'Uber-Bus'.

Re: New Research on How Ride-Hailing Impacts Travel Behavior

#159

Post by samtho » Sun, Oct 15, 2017, 7:03 PM UTC

walshemj wrote: post #90

didip wrote: post #49

For my everyday commute in SV, Lyft made it possible for me to even use Caltrain. I use Lyft to connect the last mile from/to work, but the bulk of the distance is covered by Caltrain. This combo is the most optimal for me because i get to dodge 101 highway completely. Also, VTA buses are close to useless to me, not only that they are frequently late, but they are too dirty/smelly/full of riff raff, don't take credit…

Is it really such a hard ship to walk a mile?

It is when you need to be somewhere at a specific time or not be sweaty when you get there. There are also areas which lack proper pedestrian infrastructure making it very dangerous to walk.

Re: New Research on How Ride-Hailing Impacts Travel Behavior

#160

Post by sliverstorm » Sun, Oct 15, 2017, 7:03 PM UTC

yardie wrote: post #60

acdha wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both services are subsidizing their rides significantly, so while I think transit does need to work on improvements it’s important to remember that the comparison is currently unfair and will change when investors start looking for profits.

Mass transit is already subsidized and yet they are unable to make it work. Only one is subsidizing to gain ridership. As I’ve told friends and family it’s still cheaper than owning a car. If that equation changes I’ll re-evaluate our habits.

What do you mean "unable to make it work". Why should buses/train/subway have to be profitable? Roads for your car sure aren't.

Every dollar we subsidize public transit, is far more than a dollar saved on road repair & upgrades.

Just think of buses. Two to three axles. If all the riders took cars instead, that's one hundred axles. Road wear is a function of weight, for which axles is a proxy, and obviously one hundred axles is a lot more traffic demanding road upgrades as well.