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An anarchist takes on Big Pharma by teaching patients to make their own meds

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Re: An anarchist takes on Big Pharma by teaching patients to make their own meds

#261

Post by alexanderstears »

not_kurt_godel wrote: post #243
alexanderstears wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how is it billed? Go ask the people who get jobs as billers - most hosptials have more billers than beds, they can sort it out. Before you go to surgery agree on the price of everything and ask for a video so you can verify the work was done as billed and there wasn't any padding. In an emergency situation, you're entitled to the price they advertise. IF you can't afford it, the government picks up the bill and maybe…

That's not how it works. Have you ever had a major medical procedure? You're out of touch and talking about things you don't really know about.

Yeah. I was able to call around and save some money, imagine if I could shop for it without having to call around.

Re: An anarchist takes on Big Pharma by teaching patients to make their own meds

#262

Post by alexanderstears »

Frondo wrote: post #255
alexanderstears wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how is it billed? Go ask the people who get jobs as billers - most hosptials have more billers than beds, they can sort it out. Before you go to surgery agree on the price of everything and ask for a video so you can verify the work was done as billed and there wasn't any padding. In an emergency situation, you're entitled to the price they advertise. IF you can't afford it, the government picks up the bill and maybe…

That is ridiculous on so many levels. Several years ago, I had my gallbladder out in an emergency surgery. I was in intense, intense pain. My friends worried I was having a heart attack. They drove me to the hospital, because I could barely stand, let alone drive. Such intense pain I was barely conscious. In the ER, I remember they did an ultrasound to determine it was my gallbladder, and then pumped me so full of mo…

here's the rub - people who don't wait for catastrophe will shop around on price and healthcare providers will have to publish competitive prices for that business.

You get to pay the advertised price which is going to be much lower than the myster price today.

Regarding gun shots - I think people with gang tattoos shouldn't get healthcare for bullet / stab wounds. Let gang bangers quash their own beefs.

Re: An anarchist takes on Big Pharma by teaching patients to make their own meds

#263

Post by alexanderstears »

candiodari wrote: post #253
alexanderstears wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't defend the status quo. I think this is the right way to resolve healthcare. I agree with about 95% of this: https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=231949 We just need smarter regulations: > every medical facility needs to have a price for each billing code > every healthcare facility has to publish their prices > heatlh care facilities must honor their published prices for everyone > if someone needs car and…

Have you seen healthcare regulations ? The lengths hospitals and drug makers have to go through to prevent ANY mistakes are simply not reasonable. That's not 1/1000. Not 1/1000000. Not 1/1000000000. Zero. Entire companies get shut down because of a single mistake. Think about how ridiculous that is. A company owns 5 separate factories, and in one of them a product was produced that may , in a panel of doctor's opinio…

I 've seen a ton of healthcare regulations and apprently we're in agreement they leave a lot to be desired.

Re: An anarchist takes on Big Pharma by teaching patients to make their own meds

#264

Post by alexanderstears »

dv_dt wrote: post #247
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Competition can enter but the barriers are too high - even without any government protection remaining on the generics in question. But that's the whole point -- what is causing the barriers to be so high? Regulatory capture isn't just patents. Drug companies like the fact that a would-be competitor has to pay millions of dollars in regulatory compliance costs to enter the market. Because it should cost them $1 to…

Those costs don't go to zero without compliance - there would either be costs to manufacture with sufficient medical quality or people would be getting shoddy drugs (which is a human cost). Blackmarket drugs get cut or replaced or just have random terrible things mixed into it all the time so I am skeptical of zero-compliance cost drugs.

Okay, if you want to pay extra for compliance, you're allowed to do so. Just as you're allowed to spend more on iPhones. It's mean-spirited of you to argue that others should be bound to your quality expectations.

Re: An anarchist takes on Big Pharma by teaching patients to make their own meds

#265

Post by alexanderstears »

hansthehorse wrote: post #258
alexanderstears wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the US has an entire political party angrily decrying any effort to regulate healthcare as socialist slavery. Argubly regulation is the problem we're in this mess. Do you think an epipen would cost $600 if there weren't a Government granted monopoly? We have two parties who love the current amount of regulations on competition - you need to go to an AMA approved medical school to become a doctor, there aren't H1Bs fo…

The epipen delivery system and the Epinephrine inside of it should be sold at cost. Both were developed by the US Military (taxpayers) and American taxpayers should own it.

At-cost? Enough to cover the executive compensation, right?

Re: An anarchist takes on Big Pharma by teaching patients to make their own meds

#266

Post by Frondo »

alexanderstears wrote: post #262
Frondo wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is ridiculous on so many levels. Several years ago, I had my gallbladder out in an emergency surgery. I was in intense, intense pain. My friends worried I was having a heart attack. They drove me to the hospital, because I could barely stand, let alone drive. Such intense pain I was barely conscious. In the ER, I remember they did an ultrasound to determine it was my gallbladder, and then pumped me so full of mo…

here's the rub - people who don't wait for catastrophe will shop around on price and healthcare providers will have to publish competitive prices for that business. You get to pay the advertised price which is going to be much lower than the myster price today. Regarding gun shots - I think people with gang tattoos shouldn't get healthcare for bullet / stab wounds. Let gang bangers quash their own beefs.

Neither you nor I know who was shot or why. I didn't mention "gang bangers" and it's offensive and stupid of you to bring that up.

And you obviously haven't thought one bit about the very common situation where someone without health problems is suddenly struck by them, and in a way that makes them unable to price-negotiate.

You're ignoring the reality of the health care world, and hey, fine, it's a free country, but it doesn't make you look like a reasonable or thoughtful person. It makes you look like someone with a blind faith in an ideology.

Re: An anarchist takes on Big Pharma by teaching patients to make their own meds

#267

Post by conanbatt »

alexanderstears wrote: post #162
dv_dt wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regulations can put pressure on prices (and if you look at epipens in particular, part of the regulations allowing the increase of their price have nothing to do with monopoly and a lot to do with getting policy placed into areas where organizations are required to keep an epipen on hand by regulation...). But in terms of overall effect, one can't ignore other nations which pay much lower prices for healthcare with b…

So I don't think one can generically fault "regulation" for a poorly performing health market in the US. You're absolutely right, however, I do think the worst parts of our medical system exist as consequences of regulation. The mandate that emergency rooms treat anyone who enters is onerous and there's no free lunch, paying customers are stuck with the bill. The licencing system isn't optimal for cost effective care…

I concur. The argument that healthcare in the US is broken because its a market almost triggers me. It has profound regulations that affect its market behavior.

Re: An anarchist takes on Big Pharma by teaching patients to make their own meds

#268

Post by conanbatt »

dannyw wrote: post #9
leggomylibro wrote: post #2

That seems both super dangerous, and super awesome. It's not something that we should have to consider. But this is the world we live in, now; legitimate supply lines of life-saving medicine have collapsed for a fair number of people. I understand why people might be troubled by someone actively going out and advocating this as opposed to simply making the information available, but if you're offered medicine with 95…

Agreed. When you actively advocate for this, do you face moral responsibility when someone prepares it wrong and dies? (I’m pretty sure the legal answer would be yes on so many fronts)

Of course yes. There has to be a deterrent for the snake oil salesmen and other dangerous kinds.

Re: An anarchist takes on Big Pharma by teaching patients to make their own meds

#269

Post by conanbatt »

wfo wrote: post #188
pxeboot wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that our current health care system isn't anywhere close to free market capitalism.

It is the closest healthcare system in the developed world to free market capitalism since every other country has socialized medicine; a system much more free-market than ours would create an untenable hellscape for the vast majority of the population that would be voted into oblivion or cause massive riots and death. We sit at the most extreme free-market end of possible healthcare systems that could feasibly exist…

This all might sound like a plausible narrative, until single payer comes along, costs don't come down but go up and now we the debate will be which medical procedures will never be covered by government.

Medicare costs 17% of GDP and it has 44 million people. If you expanded medicare to every single person in america (10x), how much do you think the GDP cost would be then? And what do you think will be the prescription at that point?

Its also a ludicrous proposition to say that because its closer to free market, thats what makes it worse compared to socialized services. Its qualitatively different because it has tremendous regulation and rules. And the proposed solution is to add more regulation.

Re: An anarchist takes on Big Pharma by teaching patients to make their own meds

#270

Post by conanbatt »

jchanimal wrote: post #12
fhood wrote: post #6

Honest question: What does it even mean to be an anarchist these days? What is the default "anarchist"? Because Wikipedia isn't really helping.

“”” Noam Chomsky: Well, anarchism is, in my view, basically a kind of tendency in human thought which shows up in different forms in different circumstances, and has some leading characteristics. Primarily it is a tendency that is suspicious and skeptical of domination, authority, and hierarchy. It seeks structures of hierarchy and domination in human life over the whole range, extending from, say, patriarchal famili…

Oh man, I'm a freaking anarchist. Thanks for the heads up.
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