Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory • Hacker News Board

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#201

Post by WillReplyfFood » Sat, Oct 14, 2017, 2:54 PM UTC

stock_toaster wrote: post #75

dmode wrote: post #49

I know someone who just got fired in this round at Tesla. His manager never communicated to him that he was a bad performer. He was not on a PIP or any performance plans. He was also working on Model 3. One fine morning his manager called him and said this would be his last day. He is a single income earner and was so shocked by this news that he is getting borderline depressed. They offered only 2 weeks of severance…

I worked at a bigco during a RIF (reduction in force), and underperforming /teams/ or even /sections/ had their management told, “your team underperformed — fire X number of lowest performers”. Then the manager was effectively forced to just pick people to let go. Shitty, but par for the course for many bigco places (outside tech), from what I have heard over the years.

So its, pick the least social performers, false friends and in-efficient co worker backstabbers.

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#202

Post by tyingq » Sat, Oct 14, 2017, 2:58 PM UTC

noitsnot wrote: post #195

analog31 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're fired for doing something bad, then you become ineligible for unemployment compensation (which is something you earned) and some other benefits. This creates a perverse incentive to claim a cause for termination. On the other hand, it also creates an incentive for the fired employee to sue, especially if they think that the employer didn't have an utterly bulletproof paper trail and discipline procedures. F…

It varies by state, but you can collect unemployment a lot of the time if you have been fired.

In California, unemployment is a maximum of $450 a week for 26 weeks. Still helpful, but ~$11/hour is a pretty big drop for most of them.

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#203

Post by noitsnot » Sat, Oct 14, 2017, 3:03 PM UTC

staunch wrote: post #69

Steeeve wrote: post #37

I'm not a fan of this style of management at all. I won't knowingly go to work for a company that behaves in this manner. I've read that Netflix does it, and I've seen inferences that they acquired the practice from Disney. If you have a low performing employee that you want to get rid of, fine. Arbitrarily destroying the lives of a percentage of your workforce in an annual purge is not OK. People always seem to put…

If it helps, he didn't really found PayPal or have much of anything to do with it one way or the other. He founded X.com, which merged with PayPal. He left after not doing much beyond arguing with Max Levchin about Windows vs FreeBSD. IIRC. Most people considered him kind of a joke before Tesla and SpaceX were mainstream successes. He's done amazing things with that PayPal money though. I bet a few dozen people on HN…

From Wikipedia, he was the CEO after the merger who decided to shut down online banking and focus solely on PayPal. It sounds like he had a lot to do with it.

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#204

Post by JabavuAdams » Sat, Oct 14, 2017, 3:04 PM UTC

briandear wrote: post #139

koevet wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not for Germany only. The majority of EU contries have similar benefits guaranteed by the law.

I always wondered why laws are needed to require benefits. Seems like working for someone is a consensual choice that ought be regulated by the free market itself. Other than physical safety regulations, seems like the rest of it is government overreach. It’s also weird to me that a “contract” covers “workers” rather than a contact negotiated by each worker. Seems rather Marxist to me to consider workers as interchan…

I'm a movie industry veteran. You're struggling to get that first job. You have no savings, and lots of student debt. I'm the gate-keeper to that first job. A single word from me, and you're in. A negative word from me, and you're out.

You're also really cute. Hmm. Let's see ... maybe I can help you if you help me ...

It's all about the power differential.

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#205

Post by JabavuAdams » Sat, Oct 14, 2017, 3:08 PM UTC

SeanDav wrote: post #62

This sort of behaviour is quite common in companies, so I can't help wondering if it is true that studies have shown a significant percentage of Silicon Valley CEO's and company executives are psychopaths. https://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/21/apparently-psychopaths-make-... https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/mar/15/silicon-v... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy_in_the_workplace https://www.washingtonpost.…

Why would they have to be psychopaths to justify such behaviour? A belief that the project > people suffices. Can you not think of any project that is more important than the individual workers making it happen?

Also, I suspect they would react differently if e.g. the mass-laid-off committed mass suicide, whereas I doubt a psychopath would.

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#206

Post by nextlevelwizard » Sat, Oct 14, 2017, 3:09 PM UTC

dmode wrote: post #196

nextlevelwizard wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They offered only 2 weeks of severance. It sucks for him, but I hope he learns in future not to sign bad contracts. A day's notice and 2 weeks severance is super bad and I would not have signed it unless the pay was extremely good, as in so good I wouldn't have to worry about getting another job straight away. EDIT: based on the downvotes many people here could use this advice: DO NOT SIGN BAD CONTRACTS!

The downvotes are probably due to the fact that there are no contracts in the states. It is at will employment

LOL no wonder things are so fucked up around there. In rest of the civilized world unions and contracts keep work force safe. Here it is literally illegal to do what happened for the OP's friend (unless he had been employed for less than 12 months).

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#207

Post by nextlevelwizard » Sat, Oct 14, 2017, 3:11 PM UTC

tyingq wrote: post #198

nextlevelwizard wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They offered only 2 weeks of severance. It sucks for him, but I hope he learns in future not to sign bad contracts. A day's notice and 2 weeks severance is super bad and I would not have signed it unless the pay was extremely good, as in so good I wouldn't have to worry about getting another job straight away. EDIT: based on the downvotes many people here could use this advice: DO NOT SIGN BAD CONTRACTS!

Not everyone is in a position to negotiate terms. Very few in the US would have that kind of leverage.

That is pretty common, dare I say almost a human right. It is suddenly becoming clear to me why people in America hate capitalism. I just thought it was bunch of lazy fucks who didn't want to work, but if you are regularly allowing employers to get away with shit like this, then it's no wonder.

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#208

Post by tyingq » Sat, Oct 14, 2017, 3:14 PM UTC

ThomPete wrote: post #112

Steeeve wrote: post #37

I'm not a fan of this style of management at all. I won't knowingly go to work for a company that behaves in this manner. I've read that Netflix does it, and I've seen inferences that they acquired the practice from Disney. If you have a low performing employee that you want to get rid of, fine. Arbitrarily destroying the lives of a percentage of your workforce in an annual purge is not OK. People always seem to put…

It's the Jack Welsh management style. https://www.manager-tools.com/forums/jack-welchs-20-70-10

Culling the bottom 10%, every year, is a big step beyond this.

This one seems off, especially noting that some of the fired say they never received a bad review. But it's not yet in that league.

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#209

Post by hyperpape » Sat, Oct 14, 2017, 3:15 PM UTC

throwawayknecht wrote: post #184

hyperpape wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do people there understand the difference between low performers and people who aren't fit for their job? The latter has the sound of something lasting that cannot be fixed, but I'm wondering how it plays out in practice. How do you determine that someone is not fit for their job as opposed to a mere low performer?

By discussing things with them like a regular human being and giving them opportunities to try things they are more comfortable with. Good management is not, ironically, rocket science.

I think this comment is the 'RTFM' of employee-employer relations.

Very few things in this world are actually simple enough that this kind of dismissive attitude works. I've seen people who didn't care about giving helpful feedback and second chances, but I've also seen people who agree in spirit, but don't know how to do it well.

Re: Tesla fires hundreds from headquarters, factory

#210

Post by stordoff » Sat, Oct 14, 2017, 3:20 PM UTC

briandear wrote: post #139

koevet wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not for Germany only. The majority of EU contries have similar benefits guaranteed by the law.

I always wondered why laws are needed to require benefits. Seems like working for someone is a consensual choice that ought be regulated by the free market itself. Other than physical safety regulations, seems like the rest of it is government overreach. It’s also weird to me that a “contract” covers “workers” rather than a contact negotiated by each worker. Seems rather Marxist to me to consider workers as interchan…

Because many workers won't have an option - if companies aren't forced to offer so many days holiday time, they just won't offer it. If you try to negotiate for it, you won't get the job (from an employer's point of view, most workers are, by necessity, interchangeable to at least some degree).

Sure, people with a long track record or specific skills may have more room to negotiate, but for entry-level and/or unskilled work you'd be unlikely to get more than the minimum enforced by law.